World War Hulk vs Apocalypse

[Matt the Manly]

And another who doesn't pay attention and is petulantly arguing for the sake of arguing. Do you know how weapons work in comics? Why doesn't' lighting leak out of Mjolnir? What do you see in panel? She throws the spear, black energy hits Hulk. And unless I'm missing something when did Luke Cage HOLD the spear?

The spear weighs as much as a star. Your statement
Proxima fought evenly with Luke Cage. Your statement
Proxima lifted the spear. Your scans
So why can't Luke Cage lift the spear?

[big_adventure]

The Hulk panels suggest very little time passed. It seems big_adventure isn't the only one who doesn't pay attention. I accept what the writer is stating otherwise why are you reading a comic if you want to put your own spin on things? Who said the spear weighs as much as a star? It's the ability of the weapon. Why does Hickman need to show this ability again? Does Hickman need to show Hyperion lifting a planet again before that's accepted? If you want to put your own interpretation on things and ignore what's and shown on panel you're wasting your time replying to me. I'm not here to read comics for you.

We DO accept that Hyperion can lift a planet. He's got the feats and literally nothing in his extremely limited history to argue otherwise. Now, as to who has said that the spear weighs as much as a star, well, that'd by strongly implied by Proxima herself, where she says that it was made of a star in a temporal loop, so it has every property of that star ever, from birth to supernova. You know, a page before she says Hulk is being held down by the weight of a star. Hickman never has shown that the spear really has the mass of a star. It is, OTOH, clearly capable of pinning the Hulk to the mat. Which is what it did. Just like the Glaive clearly can cut class 100's, and class 100's who are much tougher than anything Hulk has ever shown (again, Hyperion). Now, even if we give the spear special properties that allow it to exert massive mass on someone, it really doesn't matter how much that is, since Hulk CANNOT MOVE AN INCH when he's being pinned by it. It could be a mountain worth of mass, a planet worth, a star worth, a galaxy worth - we don't care, because it's too much for Hulk to do bupkis about in any case.

So again, I ask you, based on your own statement, where does Hulk lift a planet in Infinity 6?

[big_adventure]

We're not hear to read comics to you.

Oops, spelling criticism followed by that? C'mon 'Thu! You can do better!

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

And another who doesn't pay attention and is petulantly arguing for the sake of arguing. Do you know how weapons work in comics?

The whole "everyone isn't paying attention to what they're reading but me" argument, which is the equivalent to "You're wrong. I'm right." Haven't seen that argument in awhile. Still as classy as ever.

Why doesn't' lighting leak out of Mjolnir?

Because the Lightning comes from Thor, not Mjolnir. Do you know how weapons work in comics?

What do you see in panel? She throws the spear, black energy hits Hulk.

Yup. Where's the weight of the star come in to play?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Oops, spelling criticism followed by that? C'mon 'Thu! You can do better!

That's the joke. C'mon big!

[nulbreaker]

First:
Second, that's not how this works. Burden of proof is on you. If you can't or wont provide the feats to support your argument. Then arguing is a complete waste of time.

I see, so you need to ask Hickman to verify everything for you or you need to see a feat multiple times otherwise you assume it's PIS, hype or at worst you take the writer for a liar, you do not take them are their word. That is anything but an honest way in which to debate.

We're not hear to read comics to you.

You know what they say about imitation.

[Guy1]

In light of what the Hulk has done? Bollocks and I care not for your 'need' to see a feat repeated, especially when establishing a new character. I'll go by what the writer stats.

MODERATOR

First of all, this is from the Rules.

How shouldn't I debate?
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.

This means that if you want a feat to count, show the scans. Furthermore, it must be consistent with their high end feats. Wildly out there feats are given the SMvsFL treatment on Rumbles.

Spiderman vs. Firelord
Alternatively SvFL or SMvsFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; Val Armorr redirecting a blitzing Daximite (accurately) into another solar system is not, given his established capabilities and presentation.
For standard CBR fights, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman, Grell's run of Iron Man, and Beechen's run of Batgirl, all three characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.

So yeah, high end feats are okay so long as they are consistent with the character's portrayals.

Next, No. Hulk is not a Universe Buster. He's strong but nowhere near that and has been portrayed as well below Thanos consistently.

I would also like to point out that the super spear was indeed cutting Hulk.

Finally, nullbreaker, due to your behavior in this thread, you will cease posting on it.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I see, so you need to ask Hickman to verify everything for you or you need to see a feat multiple times otherwise you assume it's PIS, hype or at worst you take the writer for a liar, you do not take them are their word. That is anything but an honest way in which to debate.

You ever posted on Marvel.com?

You know what they say about imitation.

It's the key to the punchline?

[Guy1]

You ever posted on Marvel.com?

It's the key to the punchline?

Cthulu, that's enough. We don't talk about other forums like that.

[Cyke]

So non-canon as much as Deadpool Kills the MU, since it starts in the 616, and branches off.

But it ends back in 616 and nothing contradicts/overrides it because Longshot lived up to the title of his miniseries so far.

Think of it as a far more self-contained House of M or the original Days of Future Past -- canon beginning and end, wonky creamy caramel center. Longshot will make his first appearance since that story in next month's X-Factor, so I suppose we'll find out then for sure (PAD loves to reference the last immediate adventure of his guest stars).

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Cthulu, that's enough. We don't talk about other forums like that.

Yes sir. Right away sir!

But it ends back in 616 and nothing contradicts/overrides it because Longshot lived up to the title of his miniseries so far.

Think of it as a far more self-contained House of M or the original Days of Future Past -- canon beginning and end, wonky creamy caramel center. Longshot will make his first appearance since that story in next month's X-Factor, so I suppose we'll find out then for sure (PAD loves to reference the last immediate adventure of his guest stars).

Yeah, see, that's kinda exactly what I'm talking about. What happens before and after are Canon, since the timeline was fixed. But the way timelines work in Marvel, the stuff that happened in the center is now it's own continuity onto itself. So it's not canon and never will be canon, even if homeboy remembers it. Like the Reigning Arc of Thor, where he kills the Hulk, breaks Cap's shield, murders Wolverine, etc, etc. he went back in time in the end and stopped it from happening. So it happened, but it never did.

[Guy Smiley]

In light of what the Hulk has done? Bollocks and I care not for your 'need' to see a feat repeated, especially when establishing a new character. I'll go by what the writer stats.

Okay, so what's your claim here? Are you claiming that the atom-cutting edge is going to have a hard time cutting through Hulk past the skin?
Are you claiming that Hulk's regen is so fast that he'd have healed through the damage before the glaive reached the other side of his neck?
Or are you claiming that the Hulk can regen from complete decapitation, and therefore it's not a problem.

In any of these cases, I would like to see scans, since any of those capabilities would be new to me. (And remember, by board rules, canon universe feats only. I've seen stories where Hulk regened from being hollowed out by mutant cockroaches, but that was an alternate future story and about as canon as a What If? comic.)

Edit: Missed the mod post. Sorry, Guy, didn't mean to address a thread-banished guy.

[big_adventure]

Okay, so what's your claim here? Are you claiming that the atom-cutting edge is going to have a hard time cutting through Hulk past the skin?
Are you claiming that Hulk's regen is so fast that he'd have healed through the damage before the glaive reached the other side of his neck?
Or are you claiming that the Hulk can regen from complete decapitation, and therefore it's not a problem.

In any of these cases, I would like to see scans, since any of those capabilities would be new to me. (And remember, by board rules, canon universe feats only. I've seen stories where Hulk regened from being hollowed out by mutant cockroaches, but that was an alternate future story and about as canon as a What If? comic.)

Dude's been thread-banned, so no responses are likely to be forthcoming.

[Cyke]

Yes sir. Right away sir!



Yeah, see, that's kinda exactly what I'm talking about. What happens before and after are Canon, since the timeline was fixed. But the way timelines work in Marvel, the stuff that happened in the center is now it's own continuity onto itself. So it's not canon and never will be canon, even if homeboy remembers it. Like the Reigning Arc of Thor, where he kills the Hulk, breaks Cap's shield, murders Wolverine, etc, etc. he went back in time in the end and stopped it from happening. So it happened, but it never did.

Yep-yep, spot on. As far as the story is concerned, only Longshot and the In-Betweener were changed by those events. But it also means that whatever Hulk did likely doesn't count and any feats that happened (of which I really cannot remember anyway) are null and void for this thread -- not that it matters any more since the poster who brought it up was thread-banned. Still, I'll probably look up the issue for my own sense of satisfaction.

Edit: Man, if we went by what writers said rather than actual feats like the poster claimed, then Cyclops would be a planet buster (I wish) and according to Waid and Busiek, Cap would single-handedly beat Galactus.

[master of read]

its amazing what you miss when you take a nap.