Uncanny Avengers #25 Spoilers/Discussion

[XPac]

jim hammond roasts the actual hitler alive and he gets lauded as a war hero with statues and whole army bases named in his legacy.

magneto cinder blocks a functional nazi who is trying to start a new wave of concentration camps among other atrocities and he is "no better than him??"

WTF

There's a big difference between reading about something that happened in history books and watching it done right in front of your eyes.

I'm sure a LOT of people would be happy to read that Red Skull was killed in the newspaper. But a lot of those same people would likely be sicked at the sight of seeing his head crushed by a cinder block.

It's the same way people have no issues buying a bucket of KFC, but would likely be sicked at the sight of a live chicken being processed to be eaten.

Murder incites a strong emotional reaction, even against a person that arguably deserves it. Heroes in particular... that's nothing new.

[AcesX1X]

I'm not necessarily arguing that Red Skull doesn't deserve to die. What I am saying is that MOST heroes will object to killing someone in circumstances like that. Do I even have to explain that? We've seen this dozens and dozens of times in dozens and dozens of comics. It's the NORM for heroes to act that way.

you absolutely do have to justify it in this circumstance. did you forget that jim hammond got a medal of honor and a statue in his name along with an army base for roasting adolph hitler alive?? no one would even think to tell that robot how he's no better than hitler for doing it.

yet here comes hitler 2.0 with the mind of the most dangerous telepath in existence, and an actual concentration camp survivor cinder blocks him in the middle of a new concentration camp and this is the reaction he gets.

unbelievable and offensive on so many levels. i can't believe marvel allowed this to be printed.

[Stussyjones]

this is perhaps rogue's most pathetic moment as a mutant and hero. i am ashamed of her.

Na that scene in AVX when she went begging to the avengers for forgiveness was worse.

[XPac]

I am very much against casual killing by superheroes. However, the Red Skull, who has been wielding Xaviers telepathy as a weapon of mass hate indoctrination and who has been building concentration camps for mass murder is fair game. There is a degree of scale between "heroes" like the Punisher killing random drug dealers and a hero like Magneto killing a Hitler analogue and that scale is between petty crime and genocide.

And I'm not suggesting that Red Skull doesn't necessarily deserve anything he gets.

What I am suggesting is that heroes reaction the way they did to a person, even a monster, getting their head smashed by a cinder block, is entirely understandable.

Plus the whole Xavier thing. From Rogues perspective, Chuck just got killed again.

[Trident]

they are mad at a holocaust survivor killed a Nazi lol wtf.

Let's be honest here.....do you honestly think Magneto cares? I'm betting he is like this on the inside

[jen]

this is perhaps rogue's most pathetic moment as a mutant and hero. i am ashamed of her.

Eh, she was upset he killed Xavier not that he killed Red Skull. She wanted the opportunity to save Charles. Magneto did what he felt was right. I don not begrudge him killing Red Skull, but he did not listen to the fact that his friend Charles might still be alive. He rejected it. So Rogue and Magneto are on different sides of how to deal with the situation not that Red Skull is evil.

[cranger]

this is perhaps rogue's most pathetic moment as a mutant and hero. i am ashamed of her.

I am probably giving Remender too much credit, but Rogue has had to deal with powers that could cause great harm with the slightest touch and also was romantically involved with Magneto so I could he this would be something that she not only does not agree with but also disappoints her.

[Stussyjones]

Remember mutants it's not the x men or the avengers that has your best interest in mind it's magneto. The "heroes" are mad at the guy who killed your tormentors.

[XPac]

you absolutely do have to justify it in this circumstance. did you forget that jim hammond got a medal of honor and a statue in his name along with an army base for roasting adolph hitler alive?? no one would even think to tell that robot how he's no better than hitler for doing it.

yet here comes hitler 2.0 with the mind of the most dangerous telepath in existence, and an actual concentration camp survivor cinder blocks him in the middle of a new concentration camp and this is the reaction he gets.

unbelievable and offensive on so many levels. i can't believe marvel allowed this to be printed.

Considering that the holocaust survivor is himself a mass murder who once attempted to bring about World War 3, I can't bring myself to be TOO offended that someone would say he's as bad as Skull. I don't think he is... but he's no saint.

[Stussyjones]

Let's be honest here.....do you honestly think Magneto cares? I'm betting he is like this on the inside

He probably got headache listening to there crying.

[useridgoeshere]

Exactly! This whole scene just feels culturally tone deaf of the heroes. It goes beyond superheroics and mutants. Red Skull is super hitler.

Of the long list of times that Remender has been culturally tone deaf, where does this fall? Has to be near or at the top, since it's so literal. No metaphor, no reading into it, nothing to hide behind this time.

[XPac]

Remember mutants it's not the x men or the avengers that has your best interest in mind it's magneto. The "heroes" are mad at the guy who killed your tormentors.

I'm sure they'll try real hard to remember that when the Red Onslaught begins.

[magnuskn]

And I'm not suggesting that Red Skull doesn't necessarily deserve anything he gets.

What I am suggesting is that heroes reaction the way they did to a person, even a monster, getting their head smashed by a cinder block, is entirely understandable.

Plus the whole Xavier thing. From Rogues perspective, Chuck just got killed again.

I am pretty sure that I could pull up a long list of people Rogue has gotten killed or killed herself. Probably very much longer if you include aliens among the category "people" (which you should). So, y'know, hipocrisy is a factor here, too.

Again, I am all for heroes not killing easily, but I am also for a degree of practicality. "Genocidal nazi" is very much in the latter category and for Rogue to not recognize that makes her less of a good character. It is not as if the Red Skull was helpless, like with Bin Laden when he got killed.

[XPac]

Let's be honest here.....do you honestly think Magneto cares? I'm betting he is like this on the inside

I'll wager if he actually suceeded in killing the Red Skull he wouldn't regret any of it.

As it stands, I imagine Mags will be regretting his actions quite a bit in the next few months.

[AcesX1X]

rogue knows how dangerous charles is and even if she loved him she would never risk skull harming another mutant with charles mind. her reaction here is totally OOC and flies in the face of her entire history.