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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    You've made this point a few times, and, respectfully, I don't get why it's hard why some people may think it's "bad" (or, as I think, increasingly good but still not as as good as Wonder Woman) even thought it sells better than current issues of Wonder Woman." Here, again, are a few points to consider:

    1. Sales don't necessarily equal quality. The #1 bestselling comic, book or moview isn't necessarily the best comic, book or movie in any individual's eyes. Or, do you disagree with that?

    2. Almost all comics lose sales over time, and so it's not surprising that issue 31 of one comic isn't selling as well as issue 8 of another.

    3. SM/WW is currently part of a much hyped crossover. Those drive sales up temporarily.

    I'd love to know what you think of these points, and whether I'm missing something about your point. It seems like if we respond to each others' points this conversation could progress instead of just repeating next month.

    I do think it's fair to say that Superman/Wonder Woman SHOULD sell better than Wonder Woman's solo book for a few reasons:


    1.) SM/WW is newer.

    2.) SM/WW features 2 of DC's most iconic heroes where as Wonder Woman's solo book features one of them.


    At the same time, there are other solo DC books that are just as old as Wonder Woman that are selling better than her currently:


    Action Comics
    Aquaman
    Batgirl
    Flash
    Green Lantern
    Nightwing
    Superman


    And that's not counting books that star Batman solo each month. It's true that sales don't always equal quality but that's because quality is based on opinion and nothing more. I think Justice League is a top quality book while I've seen other says it's garbage. At the end of the day, the only way you can really measure the success of any book is by it's sales. Given that we are not made privy to digital sales, all we have to go on at this point are the sales of physical copies.
    Currently Reading:Batman & The Outsiders, Doomsday Clock, Female Furies, Freedom Fighters, Hawkman, Heroes in Crisis, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I do think it's fair to say that Superman/Wonder Woman SHOULD sell better than Wonder Woman's solo book for a few reasons:
    Sure. One might even argue that it should be selling better than Wonder Woman was during the first eight months of the New 52. But then again, you could point out that DC's sales in general were elevated by the exceitement/hype over the New 52. There's really no clear-cut comparison to make, one way or another.

    At the same time, there are other solo DC books that are just as old as Wonder Woman that are selling better than her currently:
    Of course! No one is saying that Wonder Woman has been DCs top-selling first-wave New 52 book.It was also selling less than all of the books you listed --except Batgirl, if I remember correctly--at the beginning of the New 52. They've all declined in sales, and if Wonder Woman's decline in sales has been any slower than that of any of those other books, it hasn't been by enough to overtake them. Those comparisons are meaningful, but comparing the sales of Wonder Woman 31 to SM/WW 8 is barely more meaningful than comparing WW 1 to Superman 31, Flash 31 or Aquaman 31.

    ...but that's because quality is based on opinion and nothing more.
    I think we basically agree about that, although I'd say it a little differently; our opinions about quality are based on the criteria by which we define quality, and those very among different groups of fans. For example, if everyone agreed with you that a high quality Wonder Woman book by definition includes traditional supporting characters and villains and a preponderance of traditional superheroic stories over myth/mystery/horror stories, we could probably all agree that this run is of lower quality than Jiminiez's run, despite the fact that average sales per issues are higher for Azzarello. But we don't all agree on that definition of quality.

    At the end of the day, the only way you can really measure the success of any book is by it's sales. Given that we are not made privy to digital sales, all we have to go on at this point are the sales of physical copies.
    Since I don't work for DC, though, a book's ales "success" is of less interest to me than whether I will enjoy reading, subjective as that may be, or whether it meets my criteria for excellence, even though those criteria aren't shared by anyone. Anyway, I think we agree on the answer to the previous poster's question: some people say that SM/WW is "bad," regardless of its sales, because by "bad" they mean "not what I want to read." And I think that's a fairly reasonable and easily understood way of talking about "good" and "bad" in mass media, especially if one is not a sales executive or professional critic.
    Last edited by Silvanus; 06-17-2014 at 08:30 AM.

  3. #33
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    Action Comics
    Aquaman
    Batgirl
    Flash
    Green Lantern
    Nightwing
    Superman
    flash,superman,aquaman, action comics, batgirl. not by a large margin. Flash is the only one that don't crossover very often

    Sure. One might even argue that it should be selling better than Wonder Woman was during the first eight months of the New 52. But then again, you could point out that DC's sales in general were elevated by the exceitement/hype over the New 52. There's really no clear-cut comparison to make, one way or another.
    hummm the hype was for 52 books, WW didn't got any special promotion like SMWW had. I think comparing the sales are pretty fair, except if enters crossovers.

    Since I don't work for DC, though, a book's ales "success" is of less interest to me than whether I will enjoy reading, subjective as that may be, or whether it meets my criteria for excellence, even though those criteria aren't shared by anyone. Anyway, I think we agree on the answer to the previous poster's question: some people say that SM/WW is "bad," regardless of its sales, because by "bad" they mean "not what I want to read." And I think that's a fairly reasonable and easily understood way of talking about "good" and "bad" in mass media, especially if one is not a sales executive or professional critic.
    or maybe these fans have standarts to compare success of books.
    Last edited by Blacksun; 06-17-2014 at 08:50 AM.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    Sure. One might even argue that it should be selling better than Wonder Woman was during the first eight months of the New 52. But then again, you could point out that DC's sales in general were elevated by the exceitement/hype over the New 52. There's really no clear-cut comparison to make, one way or another.



    Of course! No one is saying that Wonder Woman has been DCs top-selling first-wave New 52 book.It was also selling less than all of the books you listed --except Batgirl, if I remember correctly--at the beginning of the New 52. They've all declined in sales, and if Wonder Woman's decline in sales has been any slower than that of any of those other books, it hasn't been by enough to overtake them. Those comparisons are meaningful, but comparing the sales of Wonder Woman 31 to SM/WW 8 is barely more meaningful than comparing WW 1 to Superman 31, Flash 31 or Aquaman 31.



    I think we basically agree about that, although I'd say it a little differently; our opinions about quality are based on the criteria by which we define quality, and those very among different groups of fans. For example, if everyone agreed with you that a high quality Wonder Woman book by definition includes traditional supporting characters and villains and a preponderance of traditional superheroic stories over myth/mystery/horror stories, we could probably all agree that this run is of lower quality than Jiminiez's run, despite the fact that average sales per issues are higher for Azzarello. But we don't all agree on that definition of quality.



    Since I don't work for DC, though, a book's ales "success" is of less interest to me than whether I will enjoy reading, subjective as that may be, or whether it meets my criteria for excellence, even though those criteria aren't shared by anyone. Anyway, I think we agree on the answer to the previous poster's question: some people say that SM/WW is "bad," regardless of its sales, because by "bad" they mean "not what I want to read." And I think that's a fairly reasonable and easily understood way of talking about "good" and "bad" in mass media, especially if one is not a sales executive or professional critic.

    Care to explain why you think Wonder Woman is currently a high-quality book?

    Here is why I don't think it's a high quality book. Yes, it's true that I'm not excited about the 3 year long all-myth story but it goes beyond that for me as why I'm not interested in the book:


    1.) Wonder Woman herself has been portrayed very out of character in this run. I know there are those who disagree but that's my opinion on the matter.

    2.) The book uses too many public domain characters for my taste. This comes off as a bit cheap to me as I can read/watch Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Ares, Hades, Poseidon, etc. in many other mediums.

    3.) The pacing of this 3 year long story is extremely slow and seems to be filled with more filler-moments than I would like.

    4.) The book is all but completely cut off from the New 52. Granted, crossovers aren't integral to a book's success but some acknowledgment of the greater DCU would be nice once in a while to help know where this story falls chronologically or that Diana gives a darn about anything going on that's not related to Olympus or Themyscira.

    5.) The art is all over the place even when Chiang draws an entire issue. Some panels are very well drawn out while others lack what I think are essential details and backgrounds.

    6.) The amount of graphic and/or deviant points in this story comes across as cheap shock-value.


    Anyways, I'd love to see your reasons why you feel so differently.
    Currently Reading:Batman & The Outsiders, Doomsday Clock, Female Furies, Freedom Fighters, Hawkman, Heroes in Crisis, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Care to explain why you think Wonder Woman is currently a high-quality book?
    I think I've been doing that on this forum for the last three years, just as you have been explaining why you don't agree. As you probably know, several of my reasons for thinking its high quality are pretty much the same as your reasons for thinking its low quality. I'm sure I'll go into detail about some of my reasons again, but maybe not on the sales thread. Shouldn't we keep this thread focused on sales?

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    I think I've been doing that on this forum for the last three years, just as you have been explaining why you don't agree. As you probably know, several of my reasons for thinking its high quality are pretty much the same as your reasons for thinking its low quality. I'm sure I'll go into detail about some of my reasons again, but maybe not on the sales thread. Shouldn't we keep this thread focused on sales?

    I figured that the reasons I'm not buying Wonder Woman and the reasons you are buying it were relevant to the sales topic. Regardless, if you'd rather not discuss this here, that's fine.
    Currently Reading:Batman & The Outsiders, Doomsday Clock, Female Furies, Freedom Fighters, Hawkman, Heroes in Crisis, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  7. #37
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I figured that the reasons I'm not buying Wonder Woman and the reasons you are buying it were relevant to the sales topic. Regardless, if you'd rather not discuss this here, that's fine.
    Silvanus is correct - this is a thread for the actual sales figures (which is why it's a sticky) If you wish to discuss them at length, please start a separate discussion
    Gaelforce
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  8. #38
    King of the Dragons Mister Ferro's Avatar
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    June
    #
    Units
    Delta %
    Wonder Woman 32 48,235 57.35

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Ferro View Post
    June
    #
    Units
    Delta %
    Wonder Woman 32 48,235 57.35
    Thanks. Bombshell variants doing miracles for DC (at least for a month)
    13 Superman Wonder Woman 9 $3.99 DC 62,659

  10. #40
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    77 Wonder Woman 33 $2.99 DC 37,431

    37 Superman Wonder Woman 10 $3.99 DC 50,254

  11. #41
    King of the Dragons Mister Ferro's Avatar
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    Yes WW #33 drop nearly 11 k and is -22.4% delta but there is a positive to take from this:

    #33 is up from #31 by 6,776 units for a positive delta 14.05%.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    These variant covers seem to be helping out both books quite a bit.
    Currently Reading:Batman & The Outsiders, Doomsday Clock, Female Furies, Freedom Fighters, Hawkman, Heroes in Crisis, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Ferro View Post
    Yes WW #33 drop nearly 11 k and is -22.4% delta but there is a positive to take from this:

    #33 is up from #31 by 6,776 units for a positive delta 14.05%.
    Do we know what percentage of books produced are variants?
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

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  14. #44
    King of the Dragons Mister Ferro's Avatar
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    August #
    Rank
    Units Delta
    Superman/Wonder Woman 11 27 50,550 0.59%
    Superman/Wonder Woman Annual 1 38 42,094 ****
    Sensation Comics Featuring Wonder Woman
    1 75 29,640 ****

    WW 34 & 35 will double ship in October.
    Last edited by Mister Ferro; 09-08-2014 at 10:36 AM.

  15. #45
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    116 Sensation Comics Featuring Wonder Woman 2 $3.99 DC 22,085

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