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  1. #1
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    Default Captain America #25 - Thor with Mjolnir? Tony Stark just hanging out? Whats the Deal? (SPOILERS)

    So, I just picked up the new Captain America, and i'm totally confused as to when all this goes down in the timeline. So basically, an aged and depowered Steve Rogers calls a gathering of Avengers to celebrate Sam Wilson taking up the mantle of Captain America. Attending the party are none other than Thor, wielding Mjolnir, and two members of the illuminati, Dr. Strange and Tony Stark. I am thoroughly confused, because the Avengers comic, before the 8 month time skip, shows Steve Rogers, still pumped full of serum, declaring the hunt for the illuminati. How are Tony and Steve so friendly at this function? Surely the incursions are still happening, and Steve obviously knows about Stark and Strange erasing his memories. Also, at the end of Original Sin, Thor becomes unworthy of Mjolnir, implying that the events in Cap #25 take place before the end of Original Sin, due to Thor holding his hammer at the party for Sam. How do these events cohesively fit together? What comics explain this?



    EDIT
    sorry for my ignorance, I should have posted this in the proper place...
    Last edited by God; 10-02-2014 at 12:57 AM. Reason: wrong section to post thread

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Marvel comics. Where everything is made up and the continuity don't matter.

    It's a miscommunication between writers resulting in mistakes on a few ends. It happens when writers make big plans at the same time and can't change their stories to fit each other's changes. Nothing more.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Dayle88's Avatar
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    It made the already shoehorned Falcon Cap feel even more forced.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Of Orphans View Post
    Marvel comics. Where everything is made up and the continuity don't matter.

    It's a miscommunication between writers resulting in mistakes on a few ends. It happens when writers make big plans at the same time and can't change their stories to fit each other's changes. Nothing more.
    It's Schrodinger's issue. It happens simultaneously before the end of Original Sin (because Thor is holding his hammer) and after the end of Original Sin (because Steve is deserumed).

    In other words, they screwed up.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    I have another explanation. What if Thor doesn't want everyone to know he can't lift Mjolnir anymore and is using a fake hammer because his ego won't let him admit he is unworthy?

    Now to the real mystery. In another thread, there was some mention that it was Sharon Carter in the Epilogue in the cloak, yet, the person is referred to as "he", so why are people suggesting it's Sharon Carter?

    Another thing, either Sharon Carter is lying, or Sharon is extrapolating way too much about Jets role with Zola, and has really messed up Jets relationship with Cap and Falcon. That was the real tragedy of this story and it was not stressed as much as it could. This was a real Darth Vadar moment for Jet, and didn't take into account all the growth Jet had experienced in Earths society as against Dimension Z. I was even surprised there was no enthusiastic reunion between Jet and Ian in this, with mentioning how much Ian has grown up.

    There was a real dismissive approach to Sam Wilsons Cap by Hydras The Unknown Council. Also, the introductory commentary by Steve Rogers on SAMs history was still way too thin as a lead up to why Sam is Captain America. There needs to be a lot more issues recounting some of the reasons Sam Wilson has to be the next Cap, and then why Hydra is wrong to dismiss Sam so flippantly. Remender has a lot of work to do to fit Sam Wilson into the role of Cap. And he had a good start by being accepted by everyone in the room at that meeting of Avengers.

    The banter in the Avengers meeting is interesting, not just for Thor's hammer, and Stephen and Tony being there, and I can see why Steve isn't going after the Illuminati since his aging could have made that exercise less important now. We also see Smasher there, who eventually becomes pregnant soon, and Captain Universe, who seems absent most of the time. How is Hercules there as well? Is he there even though he is depowered still? There's a girl with a Mohawk in the back, and some dude next to Vision I can't identify. And who is the person in the cloak (Moon Knight?) in the foreground next to Doctor Strange. I even see Black Panther sitting at the table. Not sure of the red eyed guy over Hulks left shoulder either.

    This issue could well be the post Original Sin step-off point before Road to AXIS starts in Uncanny Avengers. The fact nobody is distracted by other concerns so they can make it to this meeting seems to indicate this is a quiet period in the life of the MU. The banter in these panels seemed a little strained I thought. I tried to get into the humor of it, but it kept jumping from humor to serious inadvertently and it put me off.
    Last edited by jackolover; 10-02-2014 at 06:49 AM.

  6. #6
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    It's Remender basically ignoring continuity in his books. And if you think that's bad, we're about to get an event where Tony is at the forefront despite this taking place after the call went out to hunt the Illumanati. And somehow it all still ends up within continuity of Hickman's story since Tony is shown as Superior Iron Man there, Steve is old and Sam is Captain Falcon. Editors? What's that?
    Last edited by Kurolegacy; 10-02-2014 at 07:06 AM.

  7. #7
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    It's Remender basically ignoring continuity in his books. And if you think that's bad, we're about to get an event where Tony is at the forefront despite this taking place after the call went out to hunt the Illumanati. And somehow it all still ends up within continuity of Hickman's story since Tony is shown as Superior Iron Man there, Steve is old and Sam is Captain Falcon.
    I can buy the Avengers putting the Illuminti hunt on hold to deal with an immediate crisis like Onslaught. Heroes do that often.

    During World War Hulk and Secret Invasion for example, even though the New Avengers were wanted fugitives the Mighty Avengers worked with them and let them go afterwards.

    But yeah... marvel did kinda screw up here.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member MikeMC005's Avatar
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    lol I didnt even realize how much is messed up with this issue until you all just pointed it out....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    So, I just picked up the new Captain America, and i'm totally confused as to when all this goes down in the timeline. So basically, an aged and depowered Steve Rogers calls a gathering of Avengers to celebrate Sam Wilson taking up the mantle of Captain America. Attending the party are none other than Thor, wielding Mjolnir, and two members of the illuminati, Dr. Strange and Tony Stark. I am thoroughly confused, because the Avengers comic, before the 8 month time skip, shows Steve Rogers, still pumped full of serum, declaring the hunt for the illuminati. How are Tony and Steve so friendly at this function? Surely the incursions are still happening, and Steve obviously knows about Stark and Strange erasing his memories. Also, at the end of Original Sin, Thor becomes unworthy of Mjolnir, implying that the events in Cap #25 take place before the end of Original Sin, due to Thor holding his hammer at the party for Sam. How do these events cohesively fit together? What comics explain this?
    It's nice when continuity lines up but sometimes it doesn't. I'm sure someone could come up with a worthy, in-universe explanation as to where and how everything actually fits in but ultimately is it that big a deal? Either I enjoy a story or I don't and having everything fit snugly into continuity is usually the least important aspect to me. I understand that with a shared universe as vast and interlocked as Marvel's that sometimes there's going to be instances where storylines conflict and contradict. This seems to be one of those times. Unfortunate, yes, but not the end of the world.

    And as I said, if someone really wanted to put the energy into it, some plausible explanation could surely be made.
    Last edited by Prof. Warren; 10-02-2014 at 07:25 AM.

  10. #10
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    Lazy editing.

  11. #11
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    A wizard did it.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    It's nice when continuity lines up but sometimes it doesn't. I'm sure someone could come up with a worthy, in-universe explanation as to where and how everything actually fits in but ultimately is it that big a deal? Either I enjoy a story or I don't and having everything fit snugly into continuity is usually the least important aspect to me. I understand that with a shared universe as vast and interlocked as Marvel's that sometimes there's going to be instances where storylines conflict and contradict. This seems to be one of those times. Unfortunate, yes, but not the end of the world.

    And as I said, if someone really wanted to put the energy into it, some plausible explanation could surely be made.
    I really don't see a plausible explanation coming out of this one. =P It will just be ignored.

    While you're right that inconsistencies are bound to happen in such a large, interconnected universe, by the way, when it involves major storylines and A-list characters, it's really nothing short of amateur blundering. The editors simply aren't doing their jobs.

  13. #13
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TresDias View Post
    I really don't see a plausible explanation coming out of this one. =P It will just be ignored.

    While you're right that inconsistencies are bound to happen in such a large, interconnected universe, by the way, when it involves major storylines and A-list characters, it's really nothing short of amateur blundering. The editors simply aren't doing their jobs.
    Sadly it's not even limited to just this either. Over in the X-Books we had that both Wolverine and Storm displayed knowledge of the location of Cyclops' school in Wolverine's solo yet when the Last Will and Testament of Professor X came up in Uncanny, they had no idea where to find him until Beast revealed he knew. And in the same issue She-Hulk didn't even know Cyclops killed Professor X despite being an Avenger who was involved in the event. I'm starting to wonder if editorial even exists right now at Marvel.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Sadly it's not even limited to just this either. Over in the X-Books we had that both Wolverine and Storm displayed knowledge of the location of Cyclops' school in Wolverine's solo yet when the Last Will and Testament of Professor X came up in Uncanny, they had no idea where to find him until Beast revealed he knew. And in the same issue She-Hulk didn't even know Cyclops killed Professor X despite being an Avenger who was involved in the event. I'm starting to wonder if editorial even exists right now at Marvel.
    To be fair on the last part, she might have still been knocked out after Rogue kicked her ass.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Dayle88's Avatar
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    I'm on the side of continuity shouldn't stop a story, to a point. Limitations encourage creativity (look at Formula One for proof of this). Marvel right now is just a huge mess, by the time Superior Iron Man rolls around the three lynchpins of the Avengers will be unrecognizable. It sounds like the X-Men are messed up, I don't read any X-Stuff, and it seems Spider-Man is going to be pretty self contained for a while. I imagine the independent street level characters (Daredevil etc.) will go relatively unaffected aswell. My interest has severely dive bombed and so I will go from buying a lot to two or three books.

    We all know things will go back to normal eventually, the problem is they've changed and confused too many things until they aren't what I have an interest in. Cap #25 just feels like a metaphor for the state of Marvel right now.

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