Digital sales: do they count of not?

[mugiwara]

From the X-Factor cancellation annoucement on Peter David's blog
(http://www.peterdavid.net/2014/10/01/x-factor/#comments)

To the best of my knowledge, digital sales don’t count. It comes down to whether enough people are buying the book on the stands. And when enough people find alternatives and it kills the sales, the book goes away.

BTW, from what I have heard talking to other people, digital sales do count, hence Ms Marvel’s continuance, as it sells more in digital than in print.

So, who's right? I know I asked this of the Mighty Avengers thread before, but now PAD's words make me question again the utility of buying digital.

I do it only to support some titles (that I plan to buy in trades later), but if it doesn't help, there is not point for me to waste money in a support I don't even like.

[Captain M]

If Digitals counted Avengers Arena wouldn't have ended. That series did so effing great on the marvel comics app.

[cranger]

I don't know if there is an exact rule, but I think it more or less comes down to "is it profitable". One of the reasons digital may not be counted in a lot of cases is because it is not as reliable or predictable as floppy sales. Also, there is probably a ratio that is true in most cases, like we used to hear that digital was 10% of print across the board and the top digital usually lined up with the top print. So a book that is selling low in print is probably selling low in digital. If it can be replaced with a print book that will sell higher than logically the digital version would sell higher.

[Link]

What?! X-factor is canceled?! Nooooo!!

[Iron Maiden]

Tom Brevoort has implied that the digital sales count on his tumblr but he never gets specific because Marvel doesn't release the info. You would think that the profit might be smaller but then digital doesn't have the printing and distribution costs. I don't know why they wouldn't count both unless the digital sales don't have as high a profit margin that print copies do.

[Ceebiro]

For the record, Ms Marvel would continue publication regardless because it sells upwards of 30K copies through Diamond, making it a solid mid-tier book. That doesn't take into account that every issue so far has gone back for reprints and that's even though the book has sold 30K on release.

The thing that sets that book apart from the rest of the pack is that it's been reported that its digital sales actually outstrip its Diamond sales, which is an anomalous feat. It's basically been a top-seller every week it comes out on Comixology, putting it in the company of the big franchise characters like Spider-man and Batman.

As mentioned up thread, industry average on digital sales is 10% of hard copy volume. For a book that sells 20K and is on a downward trajectory, an extra 2K readers is not enough to justify its existence.

In short, digital sales COULD matter, but on a failing book they're unlikely to impact Marvel's decision on keeping a book alive, especially when final Diamond numbers reach Marvel's table weeks in advance of issues actually hitting the stands. That's one to one and a half months worth of expenses they could be using to support a new book or property that could be a breakout hit.

[THANOSRULES]

I don't know if there is an exact rule, but I think it more or less comes down to "is it profitable". One of the reasons digital may not be counted in a lot of cases is because it is not as reliable or predictable as floppy sales. Also, there is probably a ratio that is true in most cases, like we used to hear that digital was 10% of print across the board and the top digital usually lined up with the top print. So a book that is selling low in print is probably selling low in digital. If it can be replaced with a print book that will sell higher than logically the digital version would sell higher.

I find this subject very interesting because I've tended to like many lower selling books. .. what your saying is logical, but I don't always know if its true. We never actually know when marvel is losing or gaining money on a book. Marvel wont say if a books losing money or not but its tough to say a book like MS.Marvel selling 20k is losing money when many other comic book companies make nice profits with books selling 8 or 9k even. Some of the stock and costs of production on these lower selling titles are pretty high as well, I'm sure marvel has a fat "overhead" but I don't know as much any more.

Theres a whole world of argument that says if a book can slog around at middling sales for a stable period you can galvanize a base around the book and make future sales more possible. It doesn't always work out though.

Creatively if a book can hold on and produce viable content for a film or movie it can really pay exponentially, despite its sales.

So I'm not sure why marvel even uses sales frankly. I think they should base cancellation on a mix of critical reception, sales, opportunity cost of producing something else, and potential creative development.

Frankly I think a bit of whim and randomness goes on into book cancellations still...but we just will never know how these digital break down. I don't think marvel loses a dime on ANY books...but that's just my gut feeling.

[Of Atlantis]

Why wouldn't digital sales matter? Distribution in digital would get a better profit per book than hard copy considering the cost of printing, no? I'd guessdoing well in digital sales would keep a book consistently selling 20k in hard copy alive.

Then again, Hawkeye's been a consistent seller in both digital and hard copy and is still ending soon.

[Cap10nate]

Why wouldn't digital sales matter? Distribution in digital would get a better profit per book than hard copy considering the cost of printing, no? I'd guessdoing well in digital sales would keep a book consistently selling 20k in hard copy alive.

Then again, Hawkeye's been a consistent seller in both digital and hard copy and is still ending soon.

Digital might not have a better profit per book due to the company also receiving revenue from their advertisers in addition to the revenue from actual book sales. We don't know if the advertisement revenue nets out the cost of printing or not. That data is not externally available.

[Doomuniverse]

My comixology buying didn't count? Wtf...why promote and push it so hard on twitter and all the social medias?

[cranger]

Digital might not have a better profit per book due to the company also receiving revenue from their advertisers in addition to the revenue from actual book sales. We don't know if the advertisement revenue nets out the cost of printing or not. That data is not externally available.

Jim Shooter explained some time ago that at best they are breaking even on ads and this was when comic circulation was higher and could warrant a higher rate for ads. I think the reason ads are still even needed is because it is somehow cheaper to print a comic that is 32 pages than 24 (or some other number of) pages, or something like that.

[TheMerc]

Yeah, I see no reason why digital sales wouldn't count. I'm not certain if redeeming the digital codes that come with the comics count towards the number of digital sales (probably not, since no extra money was spent in acquiring that digital copy) but whenever money is spent supporting a company's product, there's no reason why that shouldn't be taken under consideration.

Why wouldn't digital sales matter? Distribution in digital would get a better profit per book than hard copy considering the cost of printing, no? I'd guessdoing well in digital sales would keep a book consistently selling 20k in hard copy alive.

Then again, Hawkeye's been a consistent seller in both digital and hard copy and is still ending soon.

Hawkeye coming to an end more than likely has more to do with Fraction having told his story than it does with poor sales (because, like you said, it never had any. Every, or at least most, issue sold extremely well).

[MarvelMaster616]

From a strictly business perspective, ALL sales count. There's no such thing as a sale that doesn't. If digital sales make a profit for the publisher, it counts. It might not have the same profit as a paper copy. Or maybe it does. It's hard to tell without knowing the nuts and bolts of Marvel's accounting practices. But from what Comixology releases publicly, the publisher does get a share of the profits from every sale of a book. And some profit is better than none. No competent business will deny that. I think All-New X-Factor is a victim of an ongoing trend in comics where the threshold for cancellation is much stricter and relaunches are standard practice. Books that would've been sustained 5 or 10 years ago are no longer being allowed to continue. And while X-Factor has always been a consistent book, it just doesn't fit in these ongoing trends. It's sad, but that's how business works.

[Of Atlantis]

Digital might not have a better profit per book due to the company also receiving revenue from their advertisers in addition to the revenue from actual book sales. We don't know if the advertisement revenue nets out the cost of printing or not. That data is not externally available.

I forgot to take into account the advertising revenue. You're right, really no way to compare without the revenue information for both.

Hawkeye coming to an end more than likely has more to do with Fraction having told his story than it does with poor sales (because, like you said, it never had any. Every, or at least most, issue sold extremely well).

Yeah, but Hawkeye doesn't necessarily have to end when Fraction leaves. I suppose Marvel is putting a lot of faith in the fact that Hawkeye is selling so well because Fraction's name is attached.

[Viteh]

I'm making an assumption here, so any retailer please feel free to correct me, but if I'm not mistaken, retailers make their orders 2 months before an issue hits the stands. Which would mean Marvel receives that money 2 months before the issue comes out. That's two months before Marvel sees any money from digital sales. In any business, time matters, especially when it comes to money. That count be a reason why Marvel doesn't take Digital into consideration as much.

Another reason may be advertising. Marvel receives money from advertising on their books, but there is no advertising in a digital issue. Higher numbers on their Diamond charts mean that they can charge more for advertising/have more advertising since more people are reading those.

The same logic applies to trades too. Trades are sold much later in a books lifespan, and they don't have advertising. Even Marvel makes the same amount of money from a direct sale, the trades won't have that extra money that comes from advertising.

Basically, print is where a book's profit mainly comes from. Digital and Trades help, just not as much.