Blue Marvel Appreciation

[dkrook]

Let's be honest: all of the elite characters get jobbed. All of them. That makes this a neutral point to me. It's going to happen. It's just a question of when.

Some here have argued that Ewing diminished Blue anyway. Take all of the encounters in Ultimates2. Did he do anything at all? Heck, I'd rather him be able to at least turn Thanos' helmet into bunny ears or something. He was a nonfactor against everyone he faced in the pages of Ultimates, except for Ultimate Hulk, who isn't in the same class obviously. And what esoteric power did he use to drop UH? A punch. Wow. Big deal. No, I'll keep ringing the bell for more diverse powers, even if it means that he's not as strong. If I want to see a puncher, I'll read Luke Cage. I expect more awesome cosmic stuff from someone like Blue Marvel. And I don't mean using him as support staff to help power up Carol to Binary mode. If she can't reach those same power levels on her own, then she shouldn't have been on the team.

Strongly agreed here. Kind of reminds of how many so-called fan, writers of Black Panther were responsible for some the biggest no show feats for the character.

[Harsh Lesson]

Isn't the character development he's receiving more important than randomly penning feats though? Writers have to give readers a reason to pick up books featuring his character beyond "he's super strong and can manipulate energy". The fact that he's as powerful as he yet refrains from immediately employing his abilities in favor of finding solutions with his mind is in interesting character development in itself. It gives him a unique and refreshing identity in the herald tier of characters. Further, as compared to the aforementioned characters, I'd argue his feats have adequately framed his powers, though not fully fleshed them out.

[dkrook]

Isn't the character development he's receiving more important than randomly penning feats though? Writers have to give readers a reason to pick up books featuring his character beyond "he's super strong and can manipulate energy". The fact that he's as powerful as he yet refrains from immediately employing his abilities in favor of finding solutions with his mind is in interesting character development in itself. It gives him a unique and refreshing identity in the herald tier of characters. Further, as compared to the aforementioned characters, I'd argue his feats have adequately framed his powers, though not fully fleshed them out.

Batman is smart enough to outsmart plenty of villians and could very well set them up for the authorities to pick them up. Guess what he does? Gets his hands dirty by physically apprehending them and we love him for it. Same thing here with Blue Marvel. If we wanted all cerebral, and no visual, we would read novels.

[Harsh Lesson]

Batman is smart enough to outsmart plenty of villians and could very well set them up for the authorities to pick them up. Guess what he does? Gets his hands dirty by physically apprehending them and we love him for it. Same thing here with Blue Marvel. If we wanted all cerebral, and no visual, we would read novels.

Guess what Batman has? 50+ years of subject material.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

Batman is smart enough to outsmart plenty of villians and could very well set them up for the authorities to pick them up. Guess what he does? Gets his hands dirty by physically apprehending them and we love him for it. Same thing here with Blue Marvel. If we wanted all cerebral, and no visual, we would read novels.

Agreed 100%.

[JudicatorPrime]

Isn't the character development he's receiving more important than randomly penning feats though? Writers have to give readers a reason to pick up books featuring his character beyond "he's super strong and can manipulate energy". The fact that he's as powerful as he yet refrains from immediately employing his abilities in favor of finding solutions with his mind is in interesting character development in itself. It gives him a unique and refreshing identity in the herald tier of characters. Further, as compared to the aforementioned characters, I'd argue his feats have adequately framed his powers, though not fully fleshed them out.

Feats and characterization often go hand in hand, especially at Marvel. The argument can be made that you need feats more than characterization with Blue, because his background doesn't speak to a majority of comics readers. You're not going to pull them in unless they can relate to him. In lieu of that, feats are both the spark and the glue. That's the easiest way to create a buzz about a character. Once you have them in seats, then prose away to your heart's content with character development A, B, C, etc.

There's no wrong way. But clearly we've already seen the slow path that Ewing put him on and it didn't work. The buzz wasn't created until the last issue when some Youtuber got hold of the image of Blue Marvel's one-punch drop of Ultimate Hulk. More people started to inquire about Blue because of that single feat than all of his character descriptions combined.

[Harsh Lesson]

Feats and characterization often go hand in hand, especially at Marvel. The argument can be made that you need feats more than characterization with Blue, because his background doesn't speak to a majority of comics readers. You're not going to pull them in unless they can relate to him. In lieu of that, feats are both the spark and the glue. That's the easiest way to create a buzz about a character. Once you have them in seats, then prose away to your heart's content with character development A, B, C, etc.

There's no wrong way. But clearly we've already seen the slow path that Ewing put him on and it didn't work. The buzz wasn't created until the last issue when some Youtuber got hold of the image of Blue Marvel's one-punch drop of Ultimate Hulk. More people started to inquire about Blue because of that single feat than all of his character descriptions combined.

I'd argue that most people can relate to the issue that gave rise to the civil rights era. You may not be able to understand it from the perspective of a black man specifically, but given our country's understanding of the period, you have an idea of what it meant for him to do what he did, and to be treated by his government the way that he was. His backstory is probably one of most riveting Marvel has ever penned, because it is so real for so many people, and that's without getting into his involvement in the Vietnam war. Or are you suggesting that being a grizzled, 200 year old, cosmopolitan warrior with bone-claws is more empathetic?

I also disagree with the notion that he's lacking feats. I'll have to go back through his features, but I've been impressed by a lot of what I've seen. Hell, in his debut mini series he was soloing an Avengers team of Sentry, Wonder Man, She Hulk, Ares, Iron Man, and Mr. Fantastic for a time. He's also defeated King Hyperion, altered and empowered multiple energy based heroes, one shot the Hulk, etc. In the same time, what have Hyperion, Gladiator, or Surfer done?

[JudicatorPrime]

I'd argue that most people can relate to the issue that gave rise to the civil rights era. You may not be able to understand it from the perspective of a black man specifically, but given our country's understanding of the period, you have an idea of what it meant for him to do what he did, and to be treated by his government the way that he was. His backstory is probably one of most riveting Marvel has ever penned, because it is so real for so many people, and that's without getting into his involvement in the Vietnam war. Or are you suggesting that being a grizzled, 200 year old, cosmopolitan warrior with bone-claws is more empathetic?

I also disagree with the notion that he's lacking feats. I'll have to go back through his features, but I've been impressed by a lot of what I've seen. Hell, in his debut mini series he was soloing an Avengers team of Sentry, Wonder Man, She Hulk, Ares, Iron Man, and Mr. Fantastic for a time. He's also defeated King Hyperion, altered and empowered multiple energy based heroes, one shot the Hulk, etc. In the same time, what have Hyperion, Gladiator, or Surfer done?

Not the Vietnam War, but the Korean War. Although, the origins of hostilities in Indochina date back to the '50s, the US didn't really escalate its involvement until the early '60s. Let's see: Kennedy was assassinated in '63; Gulf of Tonkin was '64, so yeah, it's probably a safe bet that Blue Marvel did not participate in 'Nam at all as far as we know. He was forced into retirement by the time that war hit its peak. He did earn his Silver Stars in Korea, though. (And yes, if any writer wants to establish that Blue Marvel remained active after the retirement taking the name Silver Star as his nom de guerre, you'll get no argument from me.)

Anyway, history aside, yes, BM's background is compelling. But I still don't see throngs of readers flocking to him because of it. And yes, they do flock to Wolverine, Batman, and other characters because of their back stories, even though IMO, their back stories are fairly run of the mill. But I grew up in a place with a high crime rate, so I may be a little calloused and desensitized. (Seriously, Bruce Wayne needs a psychiatrist. That's all I'm saying.)

We are approaching the 10 year anniversary of ALOTBM. What has Hyperion, Gladiator, Surfer, Sentry, Thor, etc., done in that time? I couldn't tell you. But I'm pretty sure if you started a thread on their feats over the past decade, Blue Marvel's would absolutely pale by comparison.

[Harsh Lesson]

Not the Vietnam War, but the Korean War. Although, the origins of hostilities in Indochina date back to the '50s, the US didn't really escalate its involvement until the early '60s. Let's see: Kennedy was assassinated in '63; Gulf of Tonkin was '64, so yeah, it's probably a safe bet that Blue Marvel did not participate in 'Nam at all as far as we know. He was forced into retirement by the time that war hit its peak. He did earn his Silver Stars in Korea, though. (And yes, if any writer wants to establish that Blue Marvel remained active after the retirement taking the name Silver Star as his nom de guerre, you'll get no argument from me.)

Ok.

Anyway, history aside, yes, BM's background is compelling. But I still don't see throngs of readers flocking to him because of it. And yes, they do flock to Wolverine, Batman, and other characters because of their back stories, even though IMO, their back stories are fairly run of the mill. But I grew up in a place with a high crime rate, so I may be a little calloused and desensitized. (Seriously, Bruce Wayne needs a psychiatrist. That's all I'm saying.)

I flocked to BM because of his backstory. On the other hand, neither Wolverine nor Batman's backstories are relatable to the average human.

We are approaching the 10 year anniversary of ALOTBM. What has Hyperion, Gladiator, Surfer, Sentry, Thor, etc., done in that time? I couldn't tell you. But I'm pretty sure if you started a thread on their feats over the past decade, Blue Marvel's would absolutely pale by comparison.

Sounds like you're making baseless assumptions.

[JudicatorPrime]

Sounds like you're making baseless assumptions.

More like I'm being rhetorical. I think we all have a pretty good clue of what Surfer and others have done during the last 10 years, whether we're talking about a Hyperion fighting multiple Beyonders, Thor killing Celestial, Worldbreaker Hulk being Worldbreaker Hulk, the Silver Surfer getting some nice showings in the Annihilation event, Warlock becoming the Living Tribunal for Pete's sake, etc., etc. And don't get me started on the likes of Franklin Richards or Molecule Man.

[Harsh Lesson]

More like I'm being rhetorical. I think we all have a pretty good clue of what Surfer and others have done during the last 10 years, whether we're talking about a Hyperion fighting multiple Beyonders, Thor killing Celestial, Worldbreaker Hulk being Worldbreaker Hulk, the Silver Surfer getting some nice showings in the Annihilation event, Warlock becoming the Living Tribunal for Pete's sake, etc., etc. And don't get me started on the likes of Franklin Richards or Molecule Man.

Why are you bringing up Thor, Hulk, Warlock, Franklin Richards, or Molecule Man? I specifically mentioned Hyperion(Marcus Milton), Gladiator, and Surfer; characters that either fit the Superman archetype or are thought to be one of the more powerful herald level characters in the MU. None of three have significant showings of power over the last decade and especially not since the 2012 relaunch.

[JudicatorPrime]

Why are you bringing up Thor, Hulk, Warlock, Franklin Richards, or Molecule Man? I specifically mentioned Hyperion(Marcus Milton), Gladiator, and Surfer; characters that either fit the Superman archetype or are thought to be one of the more powerful herald level characters in the MU. None of three have significant showings of power over the last decade and especially not since the 2012 relaunch.

You've missed my point completely. I'm not comparing Blue Marvel to Superman archetypes. I never was. But let us move on to other topics. This one's dead.

[JudicatorPrime]

I'm convinced more than ever that Sterling K. Brown should have been cast as Dr. Adam Brashear in the Black Panther movie. It won't happen, but would have been nice.

[PyroTwilight]

So here's a topic I don't think anyone's ever brought up regarding Adam but...we know he fought in the Korean War. IE He and Conner/the eventual Anti-Man.

Do you think there'd be a good story regarding him having PTSD from it to some extent?

Or even just having a ton of connections to both North and South Korea because of it?

[Sutekh]

So here's a topic I don't think anyone's ever brought up regarding Adam but...we know he fought in the Korean War. IE He and Conner/the eventual Anti-Man.

Do you think there'd be a good story regarding him having PTSD from it to some extent?

Or even just having a ton of connections to both North and South Korea because of it?

He's often seemed almost superhumanly well-adjusted, and I kind of like that. (Same as some other Marvel characters who have/had military experience / backgrounds, like Reed and Ben, or Xavier and Marko, or Captain America.) I think it helps to make him more distinct from figures like the Sentry, whose psychological issues are his biggest weakness. I've never been a fan of the 'X can't handle their power' storyline in which a character with great power is giving some crippling mental issues to 'balance' them (which never seems to happen to dudes like Superman or Thor, but more often seems to happen to ladies like Jean Grey or Wanda Maximoff, who, if they ever start punching above the men's weight class, have to go cray-cray and be put back in their place).

Korean connections from his time over there, on the other hand, might be an interesting development. People he interacted with at that time would be old, but he might end up having ties to their families, or have helped some of them relocated to the States and still keep in touch, giving him not just some connections in the Koreas, but also some possible Korean-American ties.