Batman: The Killing Joke (1988) / What is your verdict?

[Alan2099]

Umm... Slade? I thought my own post came across as too insulting so I changed it myself before your reply was posted.

As for more respectful, you really aren't helping things. Yes, I think the coloring looks dull and boring. That is not the same thing as saying "your preferences suck and you should go to hell!" That's saying "I disagree with you. I don't think it's good." There is a BIG difference. Yes, I was poorly worded at first, I admit. That's why I changed it.

[Vil_Dee]

I find these polls so informative. They tell you exactly whose opinions you should never listen to.

The KJ was like the single best exploration of the Batman/Joker conflict in print. Not to mention it being one big beautiful nightmare fantasia

[Maxpower00044]

5 *s. Truly is one of the best comic books written, period.

[Captain Haddock]

Well written but the sequence with the shooting of Barbara remains very distasteful to my eyes, you can argue the toss as to whether it was truly necessary to actually show the attack itself, not to mention the sexualisation of the violence on a female character sits very poorly with me - I don't think as some do that the Joker did anything sexual physically but the symbolism and imagery is enough to put me off.

That aside, it does showcase the Batman/Joker relationship perfectly, in one short story Moore pretty much nails the dialogue/duality of the characters better than pretty much any writer since then. Problem is, it also shows why the conflict was getting stale then and has got worse since - Batman is not going to kill the Joker, the Joker is not going to stop - the real joke is on the readers... for someone who is a symbol of chaos and change (the 'multiple choice backstory' quote is the Joker in one sentence) Joker is now extremely one note and frankly dull. It's an endless loop.

[sabongero]

I did a quick re-read of this one. It's not a long book, and you can finish reading this in a couple of hours in an afternoon, or so. As stated, this is more of a Joker story. The Joker has never been better illustrated (the artwork is fantastic by Brian Bolland in that pulpy 80's style) and Moore writes him as a truly demented and dangerous psychopath - there's little in the way of comic relief here, the humor is of the darkest kind, yet Moore still manages to evoke some sympathy for him.

[Godlike13]

Im not really a fan of it.

[KurtW95]

2. Not a fan of Moore and I hated what they did to Barbara.

[InformationGeek]

2. I ultimately could care less about this comic as a whole. I didn't hate it since I'm not giving it a one, but I don't like it either. It's just forgettable to me (the story, the characters, the artwork, all of it) and I rather not read it ever again.

[andersonh1]

One of the worst comics I have ever read. Disgusting, through and through.

[Beantownbrown]

It's overrated like Year One

[dancj]

It's overrated like Year One

I couldn't disagree with you more about Year One. But yeah, The Killing Joke is highly overrated.

[Master Planner]

It's a good story, but it's horribly overrated and is directly responsible for ruining the Joker.

Once again,you were spot on.Ok story,but probably the most overrated Bat-story along with Long Halloween.

[The Riddle Factory]

5 for me, it’s one of my favourite books of all time.

[Kingcrimsonprog]

I did a quick re-read of this one. It's not a long book, and you can finish reading this in a couple of hours in an afternoon, or so. As stated, this is more of a Joker story. The Joker has never been better illustrated (the artwork is fantastic by Brian Bolland in that pulpy 80's style) and Moore writes him as a truly demented and dangerous psychopath - there's little in the way of comic relief here, the humor is of the darkest kind, yet Moore still manages to evoke some sympathy for him.

Seems like a pretty Joker-esque thing to do to pretend that something sexual happened to freak out Jim Gordon's parental brainwaves though.
I doubt he did anything, but I could totally see him wanting to make Jim think he did just to be upsetting. Doesn't seem too far in that context.

(Probably just wishful thinking on my part though)

[RubberLotus]

A friend of mine once called it the Birth of a Nation of Batman comics: an unforgivable masterpiece.

Given the hideous subject matter, Moore and Bolland executed it brilliantly. Moore, by his own admission, phoned it in, but even sleepwalking Alan Moore kicks 90% of Bat-writers from any era up and down the block (his Joker is legitimately funny, if incredibly dark). And Bolland, by all accounts, threw himself into it 100% (guy took two years to draw the damn thing).

As a piece of history, it's arguably invaluable. Not for the whole shooting-Barbara thing - I could really give less of a damn about that, and people who try to use that to glorify this book/the Joker in general just rub me the wrong way. But read in the context of what came before - the Joker stories of the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and early 80s - it's a stunning deconstruction of the Batman/Joker dynamic and supervillainy in general. I don't think there's been any Joker story before - and very few since - that gave such a grounded and downright pathetic portrayal of the Joker. Even in the silliest Silver Age stories, the Joker always had an air of dignity to him - he might have been only stealing report cards, but he was still the ringmaster; he still held all the cards, only Batman was clever enough to defeat him, and he never went down without a fight.

Moore's Joker deliberately plays toward that portrayal, before flinging it all away. There's nothing glamorous about being another man's archnemesis, he silently sneers, and anyone who strives toward that as a career path is not only dangerous, but a fool of the highest order. The Joker of this story begins as a typical "mastermind" - maybe a little more brutal than usual, but still recognizable as a Bronze Age model - but when the big showdown with Batman comes along, he's powerless. His henchmen scatter at the first sight of the Batmobile, and all he has left is an acid-spewing cane, a few pathetic "deathtraps", and a couple of desperate attacks that barely slow Batman down. In the final hour, even his gun abandons him.

(Hilariously enough, Joker himself lampshades this right afterwards. His sole accomplishments during the book amount to "shooting an innocent girl and terrorizing an old man". At that point, even he looks ashamed of himself.)

It's an even heavier contrast for those readers that still had The Dark Knight Returns fresh in their minds; that book, though it had a similarly brutal Joker, elevated the Joker to almost godlike competence. A reporter casually slings around triple-digit numbers as his supposed body count, many of Gotham's lowlifes still cling to his legend, and Batman himself uses his name as a by-word for criminal ingenuity ("Brilliant design. Worthy of the Joker..."). And once he really flexes his wings, he goes on a bloody murder spree that claims dozens, if not hundreds, of lives, before giving Batman one hell of a fight in the amusement park.

But in TKJ? The Joker not only surrenders, but straight-up tells Batman, "Y'know what? Beat me up. I don't even care anymore." Joker has peacefully surrendered (relatively speaking...) in other stories, but I can't remember any other Joker story where he reacts to Batman with such tired resignation. And why shouldn't he? Metatextually speaking, he's been at it with Batman for almost fifty years, the same old song-and-dance over and over. Batman, if anything, is even sicker of their feud. But both of them know, subconsciously if nothing else, that they can never stop fighting. DC would never let them.

So... yeah. It's a well-told story rich with subtext (some fanwank required), but only a fool would try to duplicate it in modern day. Modern Joker stories have mined it so much for elements ("Life's just a joke, Batman!"; "I should kill the Joker once and for ALL!"; the Joker's ever-increasing brutality) that its only worth is as a museum piece. I freely expect any adaptation, film or animated, to crash and burn.