Symbiotes vs Goblins

[The Red Monk]

Honestly, both the Goblins and the Symbiotes are severely overrated and overabundant in Spider-Man mythos.

[Heasensy32]

Symbiotes are more of a stakes high threat while goblins are more of a personal threat so I choose the Symbiotes because they emphasize spideys heroism more and don't look lame when fighting spidey.

[Vortex85]

Ok, for me, what makes threats interesting is how interconnected they are to Peter Parker, how they have affected his life. The Goblins win this for me. I don't care how powerful or world threatening a threat is, if it doesn't tie into Peter's life at a personal level, it's just another battle at the end of the day.

Also, I would say that the symbiotes are overrated in pop culture because they look cool and menacing, while the golbins are not. The movies have helped to fix the perception of this somewhat. Fortunately, the movies know their Spider-man mythology to make the Osborns the arch-villains at the end of the day. This is accurate looking historically through the comics, and the movies have helped this be brought to the attention of non-comic readers. Not to say Venom hasn't made things personal, and Doc Ock certainly has made things more personal with his recent mind swap.

[Metamorphosis]

I'd say both the symbotes and the goblins are both tapped out story-wise, to a large extent. There are just far too many iterations of both running around right now.

I'd like to see just Norman and Kingsley on the goblin side, and Brock as Venom and Carnage on the symbiote side.

Gotta say I loved Mac as Venom. Venom should be an unrepentent evil bastard. Maybe someone new should get the Venom symbiote, perhaps use it for assassinations or gangland enforcement. The Flash Thompson as super secret agent Venom doesn't work at all and is a waste of two long-running characters.

They've done the mystery goblin thing to death. It'd be great to see a longer running arc with Norman fighting Kingsley, going move for move like a chess game over the Green Goblin persona. Kingsley wouldn't want the GG persona for himself, he'd want to sell it to the highest bidder!

In terms of goblins vs symbiotes, i'm not sure either is better. They've gotten tons of mileage and stories out of both over the years. I'm torn trying to pick between the two since Hobgoblin was the major bad when I first started reading, then there were those great early Brock Venom stories. I'm still waiting for a great writer to come along and do something brilliant with both Hobgoblin and Venom again. Norman and Cletus I think are a bit more boring and overexposed.

[Pav]

I'd say both the symbotes and the goblins are both tapped out story-wise, to a large extent. There are just far too many iterations of both running around right now.

I'd like to see just Norman and Kingsley on the goblin side, and Brock as Venom and Carnage on the symbiote side.

Gotta say I loved Mac as Venom. Venom should be an unrepentent evil bastard. The Flash Thompson as super secret agent Venom doesn't work at all and is a waste of two long-running characters.

I find it ironic that your proposed solution to the problem of both goblins and symbiotes being "tapped out story-wise" is to declare that only certain iterations - your favorites, perhaps? - should remain in existence. I don't know about you, but generally, I find that loss of options / static choices tend to lead to stagnation. Change and new opportunities, on the other hand, lead to revitalization.

Flash Thompson being Venom is so brilliant that I can't believe it wasn't done sooner. It makes perfect sense that the guy who has been both friend and foe to Peter and the self-proclaimed biggest fan of Spider-Man should become the dark foil who has been both friend and foe to Spider-Man and wears a suit that is essentially obsessed with Peter Parker.

I'll give you that the writers at Marvel have so far decided - for whatever reason - to not delve into the tangle that is the Peter/Spidey-Flash/Venom relationship, but I would wager it's only a matter of time before sh!t hits the fan and we get to see what should prove to be potentially the most interesting protagonist/antagonist relationship in Spidey comics since Harry was the main Green Goblin.

Until then, I have no problem with the writers focusing on Flash as a hero-soldier because we get more and more stories that show who Flash is as a person and as part of Venom; the more indepth characterization we get, the stronger the story will be when Flash and Peter both learn of the other's secret life.

-Pav, who prefers Venom as a tragic/horrific Spider-man rather than an "unrepentant evil bastard"...

[Dark Soul # 7]

I'd go with the goblins. Their actions usually leave a deeper impact on Peter Parker and his world that have long-lasting ramifications on both.

Symbiotes usually show up, are a big threat, get their ass kicked and disappear for a while. Rince and repeat. They certainly have staying power that rivals the goblin. But on the whole they just aren't as connected to pivotal moments in Spider-man's history.

[Metamorphosis]

That's just the thing though, that because there's been so little interaction between Peter and Flash-Venom (I think Spider-man appeared for all of 5 pages in an early Agent Venom issue) that feels more and more like a loose thread or an oversight. That's what happens when there's too many spin off characters.

Similarly, now that Flash as Venom is 'a good guy' on the Guardians team no less, that shuts the door to any stories of Peter really encountering Venom as a villain in his own title, at least for a long while. That leads to a definitive option loss itself. Combine that with Carnage never appearing, and the symbiotes are pretty much off the table in Spidey's title.

Combine that with Norman being an Avengers villain for years, Kingsley pretty much out of the picture until recently, and you have too many of Spidey's top tier villains off the table. When they used to appear, it led to big stories in Spider-man. I'd rather have those than largely mediocre ones in other titles.

[Venomous Mask]

That's just the thing though, that because there's been so little interaction between Peter and Flash-Venom (I think Spider-man appeared for all of 5 pages in an early Agent Venom issue) that feels more and more like a loose thread or an oversight. That's what happens when there's too many spin off characters.

He was at the end of Carnage USA, but Spiderman didn't seem to be too perturbed at his appearance. I do think that Slott should have gone with the original plan and put Venom in with Spiderman at the end of Ends of the Earth instead of Silver Sable.

[Pav]

That's just the thing though, that because there's been so little interaction between Peter and Flash-Venom (I think Spider-man appeared for all of 5 pages in an early Agent Venom issue) that feels more and more like a loose thread or an oversight.

No writer has wanted to take it on yet, apparently. That's their loss, in my mind; the writer that decides to will probably be rewarded for pursuing such a storyline. Don't blame the character because of the choices of the writer.

Similarly, now that Flash as Venom is 'a good guy' on the Guardians team no less, that shuts the door to any stories of Peter really encountering Venom as a villain in his own title, at least for a long while.

Why would it? In comics, heroes become villains and villains become heroes. And I'm sure I don't need to remind you of the complexity of human nature, in that we all have wonderful parts to our personality as well as horrific parts; we can wake up one day and do helpful things, then wake up the next day and do harmful things. Further, the judgement of my actions (not to mention my identity) varies depending on the observer and hir own values and beliefs. So I do not see why Flash/Venom can't simultaneously be a "hero" in one context - like, say, his own series, which is told from his perspective - and yet play the role of antagonist in another context.

Being up in space with the GotG doesn't help push for such interactions, true, but I doubt he'll be a member of that team for any long period of time. He's a Spidey character, and he'll come home soon enough, just as Norman has.

-Pav, who thinks it's interesting to compare Flash/Venom with Harry/Goblin...

[Keeper of the Crows]

That's just the thing though, that because there's been so little interaction between Peter and Flash-Venom (I think Spider-man appeared for all of 5 pages in an early Agent Venom issue) that feels more and more like a loose thread or an oversight. That's what happens when there's too many spin off characters.

Similarly, now that Flash as Venom is 'a good guy' on the Guardians team no less, that shuts the door to any stories of Peter really encountering Venom as a villain in his own title, at least for a long while. That leads to a definitive option loss itself. Combine that with Carnage never appearing, and the symbiotes are pretty much off the table in Spidey's title.

Combine that with Norman being an Avengers villain for years, Kingsley pretty much out of the picture until recently, and you have too many of Spidey's top tier villains off the table. When they used to appear, it led to big stories in Spider-man. I'd rather have those than largely mediocre ones in other titles.

I think you bring up an interesting point with the “benching” of some of Spider-Man’s greatest foes—are Spidey’s villains too successful? He’s got one of the best rogues galleries in comics. The Kingpin and the Punisher both started out as Spider-Man villains who were assimilated into the greater MU because of their success. Norman was exported for the Thunderbolts and eventually served as a foil for the entire roster of Avengers. In the last few years we’ve seen Venom, another of Spidey’s A-listers, spun off into his own adventures.

In other words, these characters are so awesome, and so successful, that they’ve escaped the Spider-Man sandbox for the larger playground of the entire MU. Speaking as someone who is a Spider-Man fan first and foremost and a Marvel fan second, it is a little sad that the characters no longer solely exist in service to his narrative.

One of the things that made Back in Black so enjoyable for me was seeing the return of the Kingpin/Spidey rivalry after so long in such a personal way. I’m sure (or at least I hope) that someone will do the same thing for Venom sometime in the future.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

For me it's the symbiotes. I always felt Venom was a bit more of a threat then the hobgoblin and I didn't even knew the Green Goblin had such an impact on Peter until the live action movies.

[Venomous Mask]

Searching through youtube and looking at the various symbiote Mugen characters, I stumbled across a particularly awesome one called Varnage. It's the character in my avatar:



From what I can tell, he's a mixture of Venom and Carnage's powers with more bite attacks and built-in cybernetic weaponry. He talks with a somewhat mechanical voice and says "Tyrant punished" when he beats an enemy. I know that most fan-made Mugen characters are silly or redundant but this one seems quite interesting and could be fit into the regular MU.

Here are some more videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv9-1n25sQI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GmifTl8lB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N7qUzHTla8




There's another version of Varnage that is also pretty cool in its own right. It has similar powers to the other Varnage except minus the heavy weaponry. This one appears to be when Venom seeks to reabsorb the Carnage symbiote into his body, which happened in Peter Parker Spiderman #10 Vol.2. In the comic, all that happened was that he got indigestion and used his fingers as knives for a short period of time. If the writers had gone more down the route of this game version, I think that the stories overall would have been alot more interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEeNXOqoOb0

[Tupiaz]

The only symbiote that really worked was Eddie brok the rest was just rather uninteresting. Even though Carnage is dangerous he is a pretty flat character. Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy that alone make it a non contents.

Searching through youtube and looking at the various symbiote Mugen characters, I stumbled across a particularly awesome one called Varnage. It's the character in my avatar:

Vanage looks like a Red venom character with some Carnage abilities. Besides that there is now history just a character with skills.

For me it's the symbiotes. I always felt Venom was a bit more of a threat then the hobgoblin and I didn't even knew the Green Goblin had such an impact on Peter until the live action movies.

Well, you had your time to discover Green Goblin then. The lack of knowledge about a characters enemies don't make some enemies better.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

The only symbiote that really worked was Eddie brok the rest was just rather uninteresting. Even though Carnage is dangerous he is a pretty flat character. Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy that alone make it a non contents.



Vanage looks like a Red venom character with some Carnage abilities. Besides that there is now history just a character with skills.



Well, you had your time to discover Green Goblin then. The lack of knowledge about a characters enemies don't make some enemies better.

Maybe not but Impact does and I honestly feel Venom has more of an impact on me then Norman or Harry Osborn. Then again I also prefer Hobgoblin to the Green Goblin. I always felt Venom or at least Eddie Brock's Venom was one of the perfect villains someone who knew his secret identity as well as every secret he might have an being immune to his Spider-Sense made him more threatening in a fight. I think this question ultimately comes down to preference.

[Tupiaz]

Maybe not but Impact does and I honestly feel Venom has more of an impact on me then Norman or Harry Osborn. Then again I also prefer Hobgoblin to the Green Goblin. I always felt Venom or at least Eddie Brock's Venom was one of the perfect villains someone who knew his secret identity as well as every secret he might have an being immune to his Spider-Sense made him more threatening in a fight. I think this question ultimately comes down to preference.

What impact did Venom have? He knew PP's secret (but venom agreed that the beef was between them and not with others) and he was a treat because he could not sense him. Green Goblin had a much larger impact on PP's life.

Spoilers:
GG killed Gwen, he made Flash drink again and then got him crippled Flash by a car accident. He took away PP's child and he adducted Aunt May, he was behind the clone scheme (it was original Jackal but since Marvel is obsessed with putting GG behind every scheme he was behind this too), he is the father to one of his best friends (who then later also became the Green Goblin who got PP believe his parents was alive it was the Chameleon to be begin with but it was changed to being Harry),and I'm probably forgetting something at the moment.


Spoiler free:
How many kids played with Vennom toys or think Venom was a cool character as child doesn't make Venom better Character. Maybe more relatable but saying Venom had a bigger impact on PP's life, mythos. GG is the biggest impact on PP's life it is even a contents.