Final Issue of "Fantastic Four" Listed for 2015

[grinningdemon]

The only FF he has done is the novelizations of the movies. (I haven't read 'em but I know they exist.) But I really cant think of another writer who can do huge action, high drama, sci-fi, and humor (an essential part of the FF) as well as PAD. As long as I'm making suggestions how about Gabriel Hardman on art?

I think PAD could be good on FF (I liked how he handled them in their X-Factor guest spot) but novelization of a terrible movie isn't a big selling point.

I like Hardman and that could be a great fit.

[klinton]

I suppose it's not families specifically but rather established characterization that he's no good at...I know I'm in the minority but I HATED how he wrote the X-Men and haven't enjoyed anything he's done with pre-existing characters since...he does well with new characters or characters he recreates but I don't want that for the FF.

Fair enough. I was just curious. I'm niether here nor there about him. I've enjoyed much of his work at DC, up to and including his recent work on Action Comics and Multiversity.

I'm quite satisfied with Robinson's current work on F4 (and Invaders!!) to be honest, and am in no hurry to see anyone else take up the reigns.

[Bluebolt1967]

...what has this done for the comics though?

I legit don't give a fig if someone feels all giddy in their cosplay. That rubbish is niether here nor there for me. I don't care if some little kid insists on the Rocket Racoon figurine because he saw a ridiculous film.

Marvel was cranking out some brilliant Avengers and Captain America books during thier very worst fiscal years (Waid, Busiek, et al).

So, again...what does all of this 'brand recognition' mean for the comics? What has it brought me, as a fan of the comics?

Comics aren't selling because 1) they are too expensive for the amount of story that one gets; 2) they are too insular - being written for long-term, die hard fans and are almost impossible for new readers to crack; and 3) relegated for the most part to specialty stores instead of available for easy purchase. Seems like most comics these days are written in 6, 10, or 20+ issue story arcs and this makes them very hard to get into. In the days of old, anyone could pick up a random issue of Amazing Spider-Man and either read a complete story or read the second part of a two or three part story. If the issue referenced a villain or plot thread, there would be a reference to that past issue number, that would allow interested readers to track down that issue. That device is no longer used to help inform newer fans and the issue numbering, especially for marvel, is so goofed up that this device would likely cause more confusion than it would help. Why aren't comics sales being helped by the movies? Open a recent issue of the Avengers, and you tell me why - pretty easy answer. The brand recognition brought about by the movies could really help comic sales but Marvel would need to drop the cover price (even if that meant paying some superstar writers and artists a little less money) and tell stories that actually allow the reader to feel like he's getting a good return for his money.

[Tiamatty]

...what has this done for the comics though?

I legit don't give a fig if someone feels all giddy in their cosplay. That rubbish is niether here nor there for me. I don't care if some little kid insists on the Rocket Racoon figurine because he saw a ridiculous film.

Marvel was cranking out some brilliant Avengers and Captain America books during thier very worst fiscal years (Waid, Busiek, et al).

So, again...what does all of this 'brand recognition' mean for the comics? What has it brought me, as a fan of the comics?

It keeps the comics being printed. Without the movies, it's questionable whether Marvel would really be profitable enough to stay in business. Marvel selling the film rights to some properties got them out of bankruptcy. Now, Disney owns Marvel solely for the movies, and that helps Marvel's bottom line.

[grinningdemon]

Fair enough. I was just curious. I'm niether here nor there about him. I've enjoyed much of his work at DC, up to and including his recent work on Action Comics and Multiversity.

I'm quite satisfied with Robinson's current work on F4 (and Invaders!!) to be honest, and am in no hurry to see anyone else take up the reigns.

I'd be happy to see Robinson stay on the book as well.

Morrison's Action Comics and Multiversity kind of proves my point about his writing though...he reinvented the characters...it's what he usually does...but I don't think all characters need reinventing and that is part of the reason I have little interest in anything from DC anymore.

[Mikekerr3]

...what has this done for the comics though?

I legit don't give a fig if someone feels all giddy in their cosplay. That rubbish is niether here nor there for me. I don't care if some little kid insists on the Rocket Racoon figurine because he saw a ridiculous film.

Marvel was cranking out some brilliant Avengers and Captain America books during thier very worst fiscal years (Waid, Busiek, et al).

So, again...what does all of this 'brand recognition' mean for the comics? What has it brought me, as a fan of the comics?

Comics are an appendix to Marvel ad DC now, If those companies depended on the for survival they would have gone bust long ago.

You might think that the Comnics are the impertant part, but when a single movie can bring in more priit that the whole publishing department can in may years that is always going to be an idea that nobody takes seriously Marvels last fincial report before bien bought had the New profit for publishing being around 30 million, and that was less than a fifth of the corporate profit, And that WAS before they started making their own movies.

You do understand that the only reason Marvel exists is to generate profit?

[klinton]

Comics aren't selling because 1) they are too expensive for the amount of story that one gets; 2) they are too insular - being written for long-term, die hard fans and are almost impossible for new readers to crack; and 3) relegated for the most part to specialty stores instead of available for easy purchase. Seems like most comics these days are written in 6, 10, or 20+ issue story arcs and this makes them very hard to get into. In the days of old, anyone could pick up a random issue of Amazing Spider-Man and either read a complete story or read the second part of a two or three part story. If the issue referenced a villain or plot thread, there would be a reference to that past issue number, that would allow interested readers to track down that issue. That device is no longer used to help inform newer fans and the issue numbering, especially for marvel, is so goofed up that this device would likely cause more confusion than it would help. Why aren't comics sales being helped by the movies? Open a recent issue of the Avengers, and you tell me why - pretty easy answer. The brand recognition brought about by the movies could really help comic sales but Marvel would need to drop the cover price (even if that meant paying some superstar writers and artists a little less money) and tell stories that actually allow the reader to feel like he's getting a good return for his money.

I'm not disputing any of that. That's an entirely different conversation, debating the merits of the business model.

I'm merely pointing out that all of this talk of the films being good for the comics is complete BS. They've brought nothing to me as a longtime reader and fan of the comics. Nothing but infuriating conversations with 'fans' of the latest film who think they have any idea what they're talking about, an innundation of irrelevant 'Avengers' stamped books, and shoehorned rubbish imported from said films.

All the ticket sales in the world haven't done sh*t all for me, as a reader. /shrug.

[Bri]

...what has this done for the comics though?

I legit don't give a fig if someone feels all giddy in their cosplay. That rubbish is niether here nor there for me. I don't care if some little kid insists on the Rocket Racoon figurine because he saw a ridiculous film.

Marvel was cranking out some brilliant Avengers and Captain America books during thier very worst fiscal years (Waid, Busiek, et al).

So, again...what does all of this 'brand recognition' mean for the comics? What has it brought me, as a fan of the comics?

The movies have done next to nothing for comics sales. This is not the fault of the movies, but of the comics publishers. Walk into Walmart/Target etc, and you can see Guardians of the Galaxy, Avengers, Batman and Walking dead everything. (Walking Dead being the only property that has turned its media success into comic sales). What you don't see is comics. I showed my 12 yr. old nephew the GOG comics by Bendis (on my laptop) and he loved them. And his 44 yr. old father dug 'em too. Where is the large, affordably priced collection of GOG or AVENGERS that could actually bring in new readers? What about free digital download codes with movie tickets ? MARVEL (and DC) need to take some of their millions and make a real financial commitment to the comic-books. Think about this (and I believe this has been pointed out before) Marvel has the most popular characters around. The Walking Dead is a hugely popular tv show. Marvel has hundreds of pages of MARVEL ZOMBIE comics written by the Walking Dead guy. I have seen walking dead compendiums in Walmart. Where the hell is the Marvel Zombie book. Where are the Avengers or X-Men or Spider-Man books. I don't mean $17-20 TPB's reprinting 5 issues. They need some big, fat books with a reasonable price. The failure of Marvel and DC to turn mass market success into comic book sales is solely the fault of Marvel and DC.

[grinningdemon]

I'm not disputing any of that. That's an entirely different conversation, debating the merits of the business model.

I'm merely pointing out that all of this talk of the films being good for the comics is complete BS. They've brought nothing to me as a longtime reader and fan of the comics. Nothing but infuriating conversations with 'fans' of the latest film who think they have any idea what they're talking about, an innundation of irrelevant 'Avengers' stamped books, and shoehorned rubbish imported from said films.

All the ticket sales in the world haven't done sh*t all for me, as a reader. /shrug.

Considering the films are probably the only reason they're still publishing the books, I'd say they've done SOMETHING for you as a reader.

[Emma's Midriff]

Did Marvel not exist before the Iron Man movie? I didn't know that.

[Bri]

I think PAD could be good on FF (I liked how he handled them in their X-Factor guest spot) but novelization of a terrible movie isn't a big selling point.

I like Hardman and that could be a great fit.

I agree writing the novelizations is not a selling point, I was just pointing out that he wrote them. Now as I said I haven't read the novels, but I bet they are better then the movies.
(Which wouldn't be hard.) Are we being a bit unfair to the movies? They were rated PG and made for a younger audience, and I know for a fact that younger kids really liked them.

[inisideguy]

I just think its interesting how comic trends go. When I was a kid Fantastic four was one of THE books. Avengers was just a book, and X-men was the new hot thing. Now no one gives a crap about Fantastic four, and there are a crap ton of Avengers books. I actually remember when west coast avengers first came out. I was like wow what a crazy idea another avengers team! Who could have predicted the future

[klinton]

Considering the films are probably the only reason they're still publishing the books, I'd say they've done SOMETHING for you as a reader.

DC's still cranking out a strong array, without even scratching the numbers Marvel films have generated...and have still managed to stay true to thier characters, without forcing the adoption of external media interpretations despite gulfs between what's on the screen and what's in the books (well, except for Green Arrow).

Comics aren't the sales juggernauts they were in the 80's, no. But they're not entirely devoid of thier own merits. The profit model is considerably lower than films though, agreed.

Without Marvel Studios I don't know that Marvel would be DOA though. It'd be a smaller operation, with a smaller and more focused output of books...which actually sounds kinda perfect to me.

[inisideguy]

DC's still cranking out a strong array, without even scratching the numbers Marvel films have generated...and have still managed to stay true to thier characters, without forcing the adoption of external media interpretations despite gulfs between what's on the screen and what's in the books (well, except for Green Arrow).

Comics aren't the sales juggernauts they were in the 80's, no. But they're not entirely devoid of thier own merits. The profit model is considerably lower than films though, agreed.

Without Marvel Studios I don't know that Marvel would be DOA though. It'd be a smaller operation, with a smaller and more focused output of books...which actually sounds kinda perfect to me.

How many books would Marvel put out in an average month in the late 70s early 80s?

[Bluebolt1967]

I just think its interesting how comic trends go. When I was a kid Fantastic four was one of THE books. Avengers was just a book, and X-men was the new hot thing. Now no one gives a crap about Fantastic four, and there are a crap ton of Avengers books. I actually remember when west coast avengers first came out. I was like wow what a crazy idea another avengers team! Who could have predicted the future

So true! The first comic that I bought at a grocery store was FF #190 (for you younger folks - yes, in the old days we could refer to a comic series and the issue number and that actually meant something as there was only one FF #190 ). But, yes, back then, the FF was the flagship and the Avengers carried some prestige, but it would have been unimaginable that the Marvel Universe would ever be in a place where there was no FF comic. To all of the naysayers who think that the FF are irrelevant or tired characters, I'd point you to the John Byrne issues and the Mark Waid issues. They took the characters pretty seriously and told some good stories. I think the current run is pretty good but there are still a lot of things that can be done with the FF in comics. Unlike most team books, the writers don't have to spend a bunch of time juggling the team members. The roster is set and the characters are ready to start adventuring as soon as a new writer comes onboard. The FF also has a great bunch of supporting characters, villains, and concepts/places that are also ready to be mined from the outset.