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  1. #271
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Following up on my longer post above and also my response to the picture that didn't include Firestorm, just as Alex Ross doesn't tend to include Firestorm, he was the very first "new" character to join the JLA. IOW he was the first that wasn't already well known and highly experienced. It made him different from every member before him, who really had to prove themselves to be honored by an invitation to THE super-team, the most exclusive ever.

    And IIRC Firestorm joined in the last 2 years or so of the original JLA's history. So he wasn't a member of the original/Satellite team for very long, he was added very late in the game (as was Zatanna), and he sort of broke the rule that a character had to be very established and very proven before they could be considered for membership.

    It's not that surprising that once they'd done that the next step would be to split up the team that was the only Justice League team from 1960-1985 or so. Firestorm didn't fit the prior criteria for membership.

    Of course there were other characters that were invited to join but either never answered (Phantom Stranger) or said "no, you jive turkey!" like the very stereotyped Black Lightning.

    Before JL Detroit though it was VERY hard to become a member. And Firestorm kind of broke that rule. So I see why Alex Ross opts to include Phantom Stranger or "Shazam" or Metamorpho but not Firestorm. He's doing his best to display the classic lineup when he does that and he apparently doesn't feel Firestorm fit the bill.

    And according to all we knew of the team before Firestorm joined, he really didn't.

    I love the original team (which again is also the Satellite team) most of all because of nostalgia but also because I like that there's a team that only the best of the best can join. After JLA broke that rule, there never was a top team like that again. Being invited to join (with one of those fancily scripted invitations that came with each new member) meant a hero had made it to the big-time then.

    After Satellite era, joining the JL/A was never a big deal again because anyone could do it.

  2. #272
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post

    After Satellite era, joining the JL/A was never a big deal again because anyone could do it.

  3. #273
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    Love your ideas but I think the Satellite era is almost like the opposite of JLU.

    JLU is basically everybody.

    Satellite League (which is also the original team in an unbroken run for 25 years) went all that time adding "only" 7 characters over a quarter century as the first two after the original 7 (GA, Atom) joined in the first year of the series. That got us up to 9. After that first year, they only added 7 more characters over the next 24 years or so. That's one new character added each 3.5 years or so which made new membership a HUGE deal.

    Right up until they broke the rules that had made membership such a big deal by doing JL Detroit, which came just before Crisis, which threw all JLA history out the window and retconned it, it was highly exclusive. Then it never was again. We've had retcons ever since. Before Crisis there had never been a different roster. It was the same roster (16 at its max) over 25 years.

    That it took them 24 years to get from 9 to 16 (with members like WW, MM, Hawks, GA coming and going) meant it was an extremely exclusive club and when a character joined the JLA they had "ARRIVED." That was so all the way until JL Detroit/Crisis. After that membership was not a big deal at all. Almost anyone could join. And almost everyone did.

    Nowadays it's weird when we don't get new characters constantly in and out. But the Satellite League really was the "World's Greatest Heroes" and also the most popular. The wildest they got with B-to-C-list characters was adding Elongated Man, Red Tornado, Zatanna, and Firestorm. Every other member was an icon.

    Apart from my misgivings over the OG team being all white, I would LOVE to have OG JLA history restored AND have a JLU team too. They just can't be the same thing because one is highly exclusive and the other is "if you have a costume, you're hired."
    Yeah, totally understand and I should have elaborated on the JLU aspect.

    I should have mentioned that I meant to add the characters I listed to the Satellite Era team and leave it at that for the "crazy-large" team - not the entirety of the DCU. Mostly because it'd be good and interesting to me to expand the ethnic diversity (and I guess species diversity with the Wonder Twins) of the League past the Satellite Era members.

    The JLU reference/influence was more about how they told stories and spotlighted interesting character combinations for stories (episodes) that didn't involve the entire team in the story (episode) - if I had bothered to mention it. Haha... I could go for that with this "expanded" Satellite Era/Super Friends approach I'm musing about and I know the Satellite Era League used to break up into teams in some of their stories in a similar way. I'd love to read the dynamics between a subset of five characters sent on a mission within the aspect of them all being part of an even larger team.

    I guess I'm mostly interested in a new narrative structure (or revisiting an old one) in the JLA that's different than what we've had more recently (from Morrison, more or less, but with some exceptions) with the "Big Guns" only in the League (again, more or less.) I'm also tossing in a fair amount of nostalgia from my childhood DC influences (Satellite Era characters, Super Friends, and Super Powers) and would enjoy reading a more mature version of those concepts in the current DCU.
    Last edited by WonderScott; 03-09-2018 at 03:57 PM.

  4. #274
    Extraordinary Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Yeah, one of the great things about the Satellite Era, was how the team was so varied from month to month.
    Not only did you have the Leaguers, themselves, but for two or three issues a year there was also the JSA.

    Nowadays, if you suggest a team with fifteen or sixteen members, you'll get met with confusion. How would you write fifteen or sixteen members every month? What kind of emergencies can arise on a monthly basis for the necessity of fifteen or sixteen members?

    But in actuality, having those fifteen or sixteen members but only showcasing a select group each month made the team more believable and allowed readers to more easily process the solo titles, fitting them together with the League adventures in a personal jigsaw puzzle.

    And the JLA roll call was one of my favorite things about comics at the time. Right up there with Marvel corner boxes, letter pages and the DC Bullet.
    Currently reading: Dracula (Marvel), Shadowpact 2018 (DC), Sherlock Holmes (Dynamite).

  5. #275
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    Ok I really don't understand the need for 3 JUSTICE LEAGUE teams.when we can just go back to the satellite years.and rotate the heroes for whatever crisis come's available.that way instead of having JL.JL DARK.JL ODESSEY.we can have more team books such as.THE POWER CO.THE DOOM PATROL,THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS.INFINITY INC.THE METAL MEN.just to name a few.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Nowadays, if you suggest a team with fifteen or sixteen members, you'll get met with confusion. How would you write fifteen or sixteen members every month? What kind of emergencies can arise on a monthly basis for the necessity of fifteen or sixteen members?

    But in actuality, having those fifteen or sixteen members but only showcasing a select group each month made the team more believable and allowed readers to more easily process the solo titles, fitting them together with the League adventures in a personal jigsaw puzzle.
    Total agreement there. I love teams with big rosters, whether they be the Satellite-era Justice League or Justice League Unlimited, or the All-Star Squadron / Justice Society, or the Legion of Super-Heroes. This whole 'there can't ever be more than seven' thing may be relevant for an individual issue, since too many gets muddled and limits any sort of deeper character development for the individuals involved, but there's no reason why every single member of the team has to be present for every single fight (and can't have their own separate missions, or be off doing solo things in their solo books). The whole larger team only makes sense to appear every now and then, for major events and world-threatening foes.

  7. #277
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warzon View Post
    Ok I really don't understand the need for 3 JUSTICE LEAGUE teams.when we can just go back to the satellite years.and rotate the heroes for whatever crisis come's available.that way instead of having JL.JL DARK.JL ODESSEY.we can have more team books such as.THE POWER CO.THE DOOM PATROL,THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS.INFINITY INC.THE METAL MEN.just to name a few.
    I totally agree with this. Always thought that this urge to "franchise" kills creativity and originality in comicbooks.

    Peace

  8. #278
    Astonishing Member liwanag's Avatar
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  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Image updated with new pics for Elongated Man and Red Tornado:

    Wow, love this.

  10. #280
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Yeah, totally understand and I should have elaborated on the JLU aspect.

    I should have mentioned that I meant to add the characters I listed to the Satellite Era team and leave it at that for the "crazy-large" team - not the entirety of the DCU. Mostly because it'd be good and interesting to me to expand the ethnic diversity (and I guess species diversity with the Wonder Twins) of the League past the Satellite Era members.

    The JLU reference/influence was more about how they told stories and spotlighted interesting character combinations for stories (episodes) that didn't involve the entire team in the story (episode) - if I had bothered to mention it. Haha... I could go for that with this "expanded" Satellite Era/Super Friends approach I'm musing about and I know the Satellite Era League used to break up into teams in some of their stories in a similar way. I'd love to read the dynamics between a subset of five characters sent on a mission within the aspect of them all being part of an even larger team.

    I guess I'm mostly interested in a new narrative structure (or revisiting an old one) in the JLA that's different than what we've had more recently (from Morrison, more or less, but with some exceptions) with the "Big Guns" only in the League (again, more or less.) I'm also tossing in a fair amount of nostalgia from my childhood DC influences (Satellite Era characters, Super Friends, and Super Powers) and would enjoy reading a more mature version of those concepts in the current DCU.
    Great post! I would enjoy that too, more than anything. I'm nostalgic in all the ways you said you are and your final sentence is what I want more than anything out of Justice League.

  11. #281
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Yeah, one of the great things about the Satellite Era, was how the team was so varied from month to month.
    Not only did you have the Leaguers, themselves, but for two or three issues a year there was also the JSA.

    Nowadays, if you suggest a team with fifteen or sixteen members, you'll get met with confusion. How would you write fifteen or sixteen members every month? What kind of emergencies can arise on a monthly basis for the necessity of fifteen or sixteen members?

    But in actuality, having those fifteen or sixteen members but only showcasing a select group each month made the team more believable and allowed readers to more easily process the solo titles, fitting them together with the League adventures in a personal jigsaw puzzle.

    And the JLA roll call was one of my favorite things about comics at the time. Right up there with Marvel corner boxes, letter pages and the DC Bullet.
    Another great post. The JLA roll call was a real favorite to me too. I still sort of miss it. Loved the letters page of JLA too and the classic picture that appeared above it.

  12. #282
    Incredible Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post
    The Pale League..? If this is what the satellite league looks like then i now see why so many of these posters like it.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    The Pale League..? If this is what the satellite league looks like then i now see why so many of these posters like it.
    Lol @ The Pale League. It's funny how i got banned from Comicvine for using that term. As much as I love the satellite era. I hope they don't try to bring it back. It wouldn't be a good look in 2018.

  14. #284
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    The Pale League..? If this is what the satellite league looks like then i now see why so many of these posters like it.
    I take your point completely. I said in an earlier post the only thing I didn't like about the OG JLA was it was all white.

    But when I was growing up it was the only JLA and there weren't teams with characters of color on them on the stands at all. When I was in elementary school and into high school my black friends and my white friends that read comics were reading about exclusively white heroes. Black Lightning rejected JLA membership with a very white-man-writing-black-man "no, you jive turkeys!" And it took another 10 years or so to have a black character without "Black" in his code name.

    It was a different, much uglier time that way. And if you wanted LGTBQ representation in comics you had to settle for very fey, very stereotypical co-stars (as characters of color were so stereotyped so awfully when they appeared on the scene). There was no such thing as a gay superhero for long after there was no such thing as a black one (or one of color at all outside of Super Friends with its tokens).

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    I take your point completely. I said in an earlier post the only thing I didn't like about the OG JLA was it was all white.

    But when I was growing up it was the only JLA and there weren't teams with characters of color on them on the stands at all. When I was in elementary school and into high school my black friends and my white friends that read comics were reading about exclusively white heroes. Black Lightning rejected JLA membership with a very white-man-writing-black-man "no, you jive turkeys!" And it took another 10 years or so to have a black character without "Black" in his code name.

    It was a different, much uglier time that way. And if you wanted LGTBQ representation in comics you had to settle for very fey, very stereotypical co-stars (as characters of color were so stereotyped so awfully when they appeared on the scene). There was no such thing as a gay superhero for long after there was no such thing as a black one (or one of color at all outside of Super Friends with its tokens).

    I often wonder where Black Lightning would be today if he was added during the satellite era. At least characters like Red Tornado, Firestorm and The Hawks were being used consistently since then. With BL, it was always once in a blue.

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