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  1. #391
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    If the classic Satellite era had continued... ? Instead of fully replaced like they did with the Detroit League and then again in the 90's League?
    It's hard to imagine, but I'd have genuinely wanted to have seen them just continue adding members, as was the tradition.
    And honestly focused on adding diversity from then forward.




    You ask what 9 would you have added...?


    9 seems like allot to me (so I highlighted 5), but continuing from the 80s in historical chronological order of their appearance
    Some I would have liked to have seen join:

    1. Black Lightning (he would have been the absolute first, reconsidered joining as he actually did in the 1978 syndicated comic strip)

    2. Vixen (her addition to the team was great, just not as a replacement, as an addition. She should absolutely be a member)

    3. Lady Shiva, looking for redemption (although as her name implies would have made her more South-Asian)

    4. El Diablo (Rafael Sandoval), while Vibe was a horrible cliche addition, Rafael Sandoval was more quietly coming on the scene in the 80's (would have followed the old must have his own book qualifier) and made a great street-level hero added to the team, maybe slowly revealing he was becoming possesed with the power)

    5. Kimiyo Hoshi as Vega, another great 80s addition character, although saddled with the name Dr. Light, I would have called her Vega (Orihime) in Japanese after the star which gave her powers)

    6. Fury (Beatriz da Costa), yeah I would have kept her original name, and focused on her channeling a Gaia type mystical green energy (also would have made her lesbian)

    7. Gypsy(-Moth) although the name is controversial, as a true Romani, I would have emphasized that aspect, had her own it, made her phasing/blending-in powers as the name implies, someone born of, and traveling across and between all dimensions and realities, never settling in one form.

    8. Steel (no not the Heywood III version) going into the 90's John Henry Irons version, actually a great new addition, thematically and visually powerful.

    9. The Hawks (who at the time were Thanagarian) , would have revisited them as reconnecting to their Egyptian descent. re-Discovering one incarnation back.


    At this point we would have been well into the 90s, and the supposed "International" League, which had replaced the Global Guardians, yet was one of the least diverse teams.
    I would have stolen OwlWoman Wenonah Littlebird from the Global Guardians, and had her join before many of the 90's era League. LOL!

    Not sure my imagined 5-9. random additions would have served the JL any better LOL! Probably not. Although all have some historic precedence, and yes unapologeticly diverse (although these are all great characters first) . Again they would have been chronologically ongoing additions to the Satellite League, not replacing anyone.
    And the last two were already members.
    Nice additions!

    I know 9 seems like a lot... but remember, we're covering 30+ years from Crisis to today, which is only three new members every 10 years (or one new member every three years or so).
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  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Now that's a book I could've gotten into. And imagine the impact Supergirl's death in Crisis would've been to this team. However, I think Paul Levitz was using her pretty regularly in the Legion at this time.

  3. #393
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Now that's a book I could've gotten into. And imagine the impact Supergirl's death in Crisis would've been to this team. However, I think Paul Levitz was using her pretty regularly in the Legion at this time.
    Yeah. But time travel is a wonderful thing...

    And she had just appeared in JLA the month before JLDetroit. I think it would've been a natural thing to have happen if they had just postponed the Annual until Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman and Supergirl got back from the JSA crossover.
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  4. #394
    Extraordinary Member liwanag's Avatar
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  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post
    That's a cool Bronze Age cover.

  6. #396
    Extraordinary Member liwanag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    That's a cool Bronze Age cover.
    wait... is the bronze age the satellite era?

  7. #397
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    I could be wrong, but I thought the Satellite era ended in the Bronze age.

  8. #398
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post
    wait... is the bronze age the satellite era?
    Absolutely yes!


    Satellite Era started When the Justice League moves its base to a new secure headquarters- The orbiting Satellite in Justice League of America #78 February 1970
    The Bronze Age began about that same time in part when Green Arrow joined Green Lantern in the socially "relevant" Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams run April 1970 as well as the beginning of the tenure on Batman, in 1971
    At Marvel the death of longtime girlfriend, Gwen Stacy, at the hands of the Green Goblin.
    And Stan Lee's Goblin Reborn which dealt with drug use going against the Comic Code's rigidity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    My understanding is the Satellite Era ended around 1984 - 85 with the reintroduction of J'onn J'onzz, starting with JLA #228 Which marked the start of the end of the Satellite.



    .... till the Satellite had been destroyed, #230 leading to the break up of the team
    ....To Justice League of America Annual #2



    Which ended the Satellite era, and oficially introduced Vixen, Vibe, Gypsy, and Steel as the new team.

    Their arrival is what marking the end of the Satellite Era.
    And beginning of the new era with #233

    Satellite Era pretty much ended mid 84-85 with the destruction of the Satellite, see above^
    Mid 80's With Crisis (death of Allen) 1985, and the intro of Watchman and the Dark knight 1986 /all mark the end of the Bronze Age.

    What followed was mostly the Dark Age or Shock & Awe age, comprised of everyone mindlessly aping those two books with eXtreme deaths! And events, Death of Todd, Death of Superman, Breaking Batman, crippling Batgirl, Insane Jordan Killing the Corps etc...which can also be called the speculator or tinfoil-age, as speculators started buying for supposed "key-issues" meaning anything with shocking crippling, deaths and events, they bought multiple of copies of.
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-22-2018 at 03:16 PM.

  9. #399
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    Absolutely yes!


    Satellite Era started When the Justice League moves its base to a new secure headquarters- The orbiting Satellite in Justice League of America #78 February 1970
    The Bronze Age began about that same time in part when Green Arrow joined Green Lantern in the socially "relevant" Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams run April 1970 as well as the beginning of the tenure on Batman, in 1971
    At Marvel the death of longtime girlfriend, Gwen Stacy, at the hands of the Green Goblin.
    And Stan Lee's Goblin Reborn which dealt with drug use going against the Comic Code's rigidity.



    Satellite Era pretty much ended mid 84-85 with the destruction of the Satellite, see above^
    Mid 80's With Crisis (death of Allen) 1985, and the intro of Watchman and the Dark knight 1986 /all mark the end of the Bronze Age.

    What followed was mostly the Dark Age or Shock & Awe age, comprised of everyone mindlessly aping those two books with eXtreme deaths! And events, Death of Todd, Death of Superman, Breaking Batman, crippling Batgirl, Insane Jordan Killing the Corps etc...which can also be called the speculator or tinfoil-age, as speculators started buying for supposed "key-issues" meaning anything with shocking crippling, deaths and events, they bought multiple of copies of.
    I think the Dark Age/Shock & Awe Age actually started with Death of Superman, Knightfall and the ends of the JLI and Perez Wonder Woman. Which all led to Zero Hour.
    I like to think of the period between Crisis and Death of Superman as the 'New Age', which was more sophisticated than the Silver and Bronze Ages but kept most of the optimism, as the full effects of Watchmen and Dark Knight hadn't really taken hold, yet.

    And, yeah... Silver Age JLA pretty much ended when Gardner Fox left, really.
    Last edited by Lee Stone; 09-21-2018 at 12:57 PM.
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  10. #400
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I think the Dark Age/Shock & Awe Age actually started with Death of Superman, .....
    I don't know, in general terms I think the end of the Bronze age was Crisis the death of Allen, and creators taking the bronze-age "Relevancy" to it's dramatic end - Watchmen, Dark Knight, where comics were now commentary on Superhero themselves, vs. Vigilantism.
    This was followed by the most shallow aping of those books, with none of the "Relevance" instead the pure, shallow, glorification of violence, with the first purely driven "death-stunt" the 1988 - A Death in the Family, complete with torture, a gruesome 1-(1900 #money generating number, so the "fans" could participate, and vote in the Death. LOL!



    That was truly the starting signal of the cynical Dark and Speculator-age, where, Torture, Crippling and Shock & Awe Death-Events drove the industry. Which now pandered to the Speculators looking for what they dubbed "Key-Issues" - meaning anything shocking, a heal-turn in character, a Crippling or a Death, meant buy multiple copies.
    Death of Superman was just the epitome or perfection of it, where they could now sell the Speculators not only multiple copies of the same issue, but even pre-bagged issues, not even meant to be opened.
    What actually was in the comic was meaningless, as long as it was attached to the Death-Event is all that metered, and they bought them by the droves.



    Anyway question was:
    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post
    wait... is the bronze age the satellite era?
    DC packages their "Bronze-Age" Justice League Omnibus as starting with JLA #77 - https://www.amazon.com/Justice-Leagu.../dp/1401268064
    That is where Snapper betrays the Sanctuary HQ to the Joker, which leads to #78 and the introduction and the move into the Satellite.
    According to DC the start of the Bronze-Age Justice League.



    I guess when/if they publish Vol. 4 we'll know what exactly they consider the end of the JL Bronze Age?
    Yet the Detroit League got their own omnibus- https://www.amazon.com/Justice-Leagu.../dp/1401276857
    So it's another indication DC considers the Bronze-Age JL as clearly ending with the end of the Satellite.

    Suggesting Yes -"the bronze age [is] prissily the Satellite era"

    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post
    wait... is the bronze age the satellite era?
    Yes!
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-23-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  11. #401
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    I don't know, in general terms I think the end of the Bronze age was Crisis the death of Allen, and creators taking the bronze-age "Relevancy" to it's dramatic end - Watchmen, Dark Knight, where comics were now commentary on Superhero themselves, vs. Vigilantism.
    This was followed by the most shallow aping of those books, with none of the "Relevance" instead the pure, shallow, glorification of violence, with the first purely driven "death-stunt" - A Death in the Family, complete with torture, a gruesome 1-(1900 #money generating number, so the "fans" could participate, and vote in the Death. LOL!



    That was truly the starting signal of the cynical Dark and Speculator-age, where, Torture, Crippling and Shock & Awe Death-Events drove the industry. Which now pandered to the Speculators looking for what they dubbed "Key-Issues" - meaning anything shocking, a heal-turn in character, a Crippling or a Death, meant buy multiple copies.
    Death of Superman was just the epitome or perfection of it, where they could now sell the Speculators not only multiple copies of the same issue, but even pre-bagged issues, not even meant to be opened.
    What actually was in the comic was meaningless, as long as it was attached to the Death-Event is all that metered, and they bought them by the droves.

    True.
    But I think Death in the Family was probably more of a catalyst for the sweeping changes that started in 1992. It showed that readers were receptive to a dark tone in the mainstream books. And that they were indeed bloodthirsty.
    The post-Crisis universe was still too 'safe' and 'hopeful' to work in such a fashion, with its bright selfless heroes, and had to be done away with.

    I think if readers had voted for Jason to live, the DC Universe would be a different place today.
    But when they voted to have him killed, they really voted to do away with the traditional heroic ideals and optimism that had been at the core of DC for so long.
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  12. #402
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    I forget which website I saw it on, but the end of the Bronze Age was marked as the end of the Multiverse era and the end of the character that introduced that era/Barry Allen’s death in CoIE,

    Also, the start of the Bronze Age was marked as the O’Neil revamps to Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Green Arrow along with the beginning of the Satellite Era.

  13. #403
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmidnite View Post
    I forget which website I saw it on, but the end of the Bronze Age was marked as the end of the Multiverse era and the end of the character that introduced that era/Barry Allen’s death in CoIE,

    Also, the start of the Bronze Age was marked as the O’Neil revamps to Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Green Arrow along with the beginning of the Satellite Era.
    I can agree with that.
    Gardner Fox was replaced by O'Neil on JLA after #65, which coincided with DC's 'Writers Purge' of 1968.
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  14. #404
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I can agree with that.
    Gardner Fox was replaced by O'Neil on JLA after #65, which coincided with DC's 'Writers Purge' of 1968.
    That's cool! I never knew about the "Writers Purge" of 1968. Thanks for the information/link.

  15. #405
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmidnite View Post
    That's cool! I never knew about the "Writers Purge" of 1968. Thanks for the information/link.
    Welcome.
    I just discovered it a couple years ago.

    I had already noticed Fox, Broome, Drake, Haney, Kanigher and others from that period had left their books roughly around the same time, but I never connected the dots until I read that.
    I also discovered the Drake incident with the last issue of Doom Patrol in that article.
    Ironically, he then went on to work on Marvel's X-Men.

    Btw, the image on page 59 of JLA #65 incorrectly states that it was dated Sept. 1969. It was actually Sept. 1968.
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