Are there bad characters in fiction as in they were bad ideas?

[Swamp Thing 2099]

Mammomax, the guy who has the...unique mutant superpower of being an elephant.

[Jeremi]

While there is a bunch of characters that were conceived as bad ideas, I think they can still be redeemed in some form or another.

Like the Red Hulk for example. Was worthless and lame until Jeff Parker got his hands on him.

So basically not bad characters just bad writers.

[heretic]

There are more than a few characters that sound awful on paper but come out well. Take Cassandra Cain: Mute because of her upbringing as an experimental martial arts demigoddess/assassin, borderline telepath due to body-reading abilities developed thus, ran away after killing someone at age 8 (seeing someone die with her perceptions is not fun), wound up taken in by Batman and co. in late teens.

Real Bad, Right?

Now pick up Puckett's run on the 2000 Batgirl book. And marvel at the character arc.

[lancerman]

Those two transformers from Revenge of the Fallen that everyone hated.

[Crazy Diamond]

Those two transformers from Revenge of the Fallen that everyone hated.

They weren't any worse than Jar Jar Binks or Whitewash Jones. They all sucked though.

Can't think of a character worse than Superboy Prime. Paste Pot Pete, Condiment King, and the like were entertaining. Superboy Prime was not and to me he was like X-Pac after 2001 where I just did not want to see him.

[Spider-Chan]

What about Gorilla Girl? A black woman whose superpower was to shapeshift into a gorilla.


(Seriously, what where they thinking?)

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

While there is a bunch of characters that were conceived as bad ideas, I think they can still be redeemed in some form or another.

Like the Red Hulk for example. Was worthless and lame until Jeff Parker got his hands on him.

So basically not bad characters just bad writers.

There are undeniable bad characters.

What you say basically seems the same as there no bad teams only bad coaches that hinder them from prospering.
If a character needs to be redeemed meaning revamped it's basically admitting they're a failure that needs a makeover much like bars in bar rescue.

[FanboyStranger]

Seriously he basically seem like marry poppins but he isn't kickass.
He could have been great but doesn't change he still sucked as a character and was a joke.

But you can make him great. The Reverend in the first year of Books of Magic, for example. Turned his disciples into steampunk monstrosties. Turner D Century could have done that if he weren't an average monthly comic book villian. We've seen other incarnations of that trope.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

But you can make him great. The Reverend in the first year of Books of Magic, for example. Turned his disciples into steampunk monstrosties. Turner D Century could have done that if he weren't an average monthly comic book villian. We've seen other incarnations of that trope.

Again not saying he can be something other than pathetic chump but again if you have to change more than 60 percent of a character it's basically admitting they're a failure.

[FanboyStranger]

Again not saying he can be something other than pathetic chump but again if you have to change more than 60 percent of a character it's basically admitting they're a failure.

Okay. I'm saying the concept is decent, but the character was terrible. Had no problem when he got offed by Scourge.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

Okay. I'm saying the concept is decent, but the character was terrible. Had no problem when he got offed by Scourge.

That's what's great about scourge.
Even more damn funny was shredder of marvel that may be the shortest character for time shown in comic book history as wolverine I believe wolverine killed him.

[Swamp Thing 2099]

What about Gorilla Girl? A black woman whose superpower was to shapeshift into a gorilla.


(Seriously, what where they thinking?)

What about Mandrill, whose origin is racism and whose superpower is rape?

[Jeremi]

There are undeniable bad characters.

What you say basically seems the same as there no bad teams only bad coaches that hinder them from prospering.
If a character needs to be redeemed meaning revamped it's basically admitting they're a failure that needs a makeover much like bars in bar rescue.

That's not what I'm saying because the characters aren't real and they don't have any power on what happens to them, they are what their creators or writers make them out to be.

Another example is Daken who was not good under a bad writer (Daniel Way), but once Marjorie Liu came in he got way more interesting.

Heck back in the day Stilt-Man was considered a legit threat.

[Michael P]

No, Daken was never interesting.

[DS1]

How in the hell did that "Black Bomber" character not end the thread right there and then? None of the other characters mentioned in this thread even come close to being as "inherently" bad.

However, since BB didn't turn out to be DC's first "black" superhero, maybe he could be introduced to the DC universe as a complex character who start out a white bigot, then changes for the better because of his ability. Or he could make a fantastic villain for an actually black superhero.

I think the latter would be better. Because I get the feeling that as a superhero, he'd end up becoming more popular than most if not all of DC's actual black characters. So, BB could very well be one of those inherently bad character ideas, unless he's portrayed as a villain.