Are there bad characters in fiction as in they were bad ideas?

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

Nfl Superpro
Not only is the name so damn unoriginal of a existing sports league so is the sports logo. On top of that a super athlete I do believe captain America has him beat on that. Nfl Superpro hasn't made a appearance in more than 8 years, it's like he's the bell bottom jeans of the comic book world.

[ouroboros]

Jar Jar Binks

You laugh but is there a way to do his character well without making him a completely different character?

I thought he came off OK in the STAR WARS: CLONE WARS cartoons. Although Lucas created JJB, he didn't come up with anything significant for the character to do in the live action films, so that even his comic bungling seems worse than it really is. The cartoons are on the whole better written formula pieces, so that even though the writers didn't do anything special with him, at least JJB was relevant to the plots he appeared in.

[ouroboros]

I like Paste Pot Pete.

Ditto. PPP hearkens back to the days when comics artists actually had to make us of real paste-- instead using the "paste command" on their computers.

[ouroboros]

He might not have had to deal with that if the two previous candidates hadn't been "white-washed" before publication (Joshua and Ferro Lad).

Also Shadow Lass, reportedly.

[Jeff Brady]

Nfl Superpro
Not only is the name so damn unoriginal of a existing sports league so is the sports logo. On top of that a super athlete I do believe captain America has him beat on that. Nfl Superpro hasn't made a appearance in more than 8 years, it's like he's the bell bottom jeans if the comic book world.

From wikipedia:

"NFL SuperPro was a short-lived comic book series published by Marvel Comics. Produced in collaboration with the NFL and written by Fabian Nicieza, the series started publication in 1991 and ended after 12 issues."

"The character NFL SuperPro hasn't been seen since the demise of the series. Writer Robert Kirkman reportedly wanted to use SuperPro in an issue of Marvel Team-Up but couldn't, due to copyright concerns. The closest he came was Marvel Team-Up # 9, in which the character Stilt-Man says "I beat up a guy called SuperPro last week. Silliest looking guy..."."

In order for the character to return, the NFL would have to get involved again.

[ouroboros]

I disagree. The entire sixth book really is about setting up Voldemort's character.

He's born in an orphanage, unloved, not very social. He has these incredible powers that manifest itself by hurting people he doesn't like. This gives him the sense that he is special and better because of power. This also causes him to associate power with the ability to control and hurt people. Remember his big quote, "there is no good or evil, only power and those to weak to seek it.

He refuses to believe that his mother had these powers (even though she did) because she died (so now he associates power with the ability to overcome death, death with weakness, and shows that he developed a fear of it) and that if she did have these powers she would have to live for her son. Then he finds out his mother did have these powers, assuming she didn't love him enough to live. Which parallels Harry whose mother died precisely because she loved him. Then he finds out his father was cast out his pregnant mother, which led to his hatred of his Muggle half. And then realizes that he was born to a bunch of bigots who also treated his mother like crap.

He goes to Hogwarts and exceeds well beyond every other student. Once again, making him "special". He finds out that he is the descendent of one of the most famed wizards of all time, has abilities other people don't have, and his ancestor was famed for not accepting Muggle borns. Again he thinks he's special.

In the orphanage he just used his powers to establish his dominance over everyone else. At Hogwarts he gains followers because of his amazing powers. Remember when Malfoy goes to Harry specifically because he's famous and great and all that, and Harry chooses actual friends over fans? Voldemort had the opposite of that. Harry craved acceptance. Voldemort loved being special. He accepted those who worshipped him for his powers and had them do his bidding. He spent his whole life viewing people as pawns and tools. Oh and then he had professor Slughorn with his club of "special students" who spent all his time kissing Voldemort's you know what.

Also he went on to pretty much conquer death and was one of the two most powerful wizards in the world during his adult life. I think that's pretty fleshed out.

Excellent summation. (Sorry, can't get used to saying, "This.")

[ouroboros]

Mammomax, the guy who has the...unique mutant superpower of being an elephant.

You reminded me of my favorite bad She-Hulk villain, The Man-Elephant.

Not that I think she had any GOOD villains...

[ouroboros]

What about Mandrill, whose origin is racism and whose superpower is rape?

Mandrill and Nekra (who was mentioned earlier on the thread) were mutant extrapolations of the fact that some "white" people can be very dark complected while some "black" people can be very light or even albinos. I don't think their creator Steve Gerber wrote any commentary on these characters in his lifetime, but when he revealed their racial identities in a DAREDEVIL story, it seems clear to me that he was speaking to the fact that both the "black white boy" and the "white black girl" suffered a lot of ingroup persecution. If that hadn't been his point, he could've just made Nekra a default white character.

Whether you think he did a good job or not, the thought behind the characters was serious, not exploitative like the Black Bomber. And even though I agree that this is the very definition of a bad idea, I lean toward the belief that creator Kanigher eventually would have reformed his racist character somewhat. I mean, Kanigher is the guy who put Jackie Johnson in Easy Company.

[ouroboros]

He was established a very physical super-soldier type in his first story, massively differentiating him from Fu right off the bat. His backstory as a Black Mask style aristocrat who spent all his fiefdom's money training himself into a super-soldier was in just his second appearance. Basically, his Fu Manchuness was nothing but a visual illusion that was dispelled almost immediately.

Here's an old early story pic, he's already very physical, already very different from Fu Manchu's evil old nerd slipping people poison.

You're fundamentally right about Mandarin's greater physicality, but Fu Manchu is also more than just a little old poison-maker. In prose he's the greatest scientific genius in the world, turning out zombies and handheld disintegrator rays, and even in the Marvelverse, he can revive dead people and breed giant scorpions.

[Mighty Roman]

From wikipedia:

"NFL SuperPro was a short-lived comic book series published by Marvel Comics. Produced in collaboration with the NFL and written by Fabian Nicieza, the series started publication in 1991 and ended after 12 issues."

"The character NFL SuperPro hasn't been seen since the demise of the series. Writer Robert Kirkman reportedly wanted to use SuperPro in an issue of Marvel Team-Up but couldn't, due to copyright concerns. The closest he came was Marvel Team-Up # 9, in which the character Stilt-Man says "I beat up a guy called SuperPro last week. Silliest looking guy..."."

In order for the character to return, the NFL would have to get involved again.

And when you thought NFL Superpro couldn't get any worse....he's been beaten up by Stilt Man.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

And when you thought NFL Superpro couldn't get any worse....he's been beaten up by Stilt Man.

Yes stilt man the same bum that freakin failed both as a super villain and a super hero.

[Crimson Knight]

Yes stilt man the same bum that freakin failed both as a super villain and a super hero.

Really? When was Stilt-Man a superhero?

Usually know him as a Daredevil foe, whether it was Turk or otherwise.

I suppose some characters have a degree at their core that makes them this, or that, and doesn't go beyond that, really, or is going outward from that and can't maybe improve.

Hate-Monger might be an example, a fella spreading hate from person to person, for everyone to hate, and the Fantastic Four had to deal with it.

And, found out, at the end, that Adolf Hitler was the Hate-Monger, in fact.

So, I suppose, I don't know if the character's ever been brought back since that Stan Lee/Jack Kirby story, but I'm not sure if you'd be able to make him work for todays' standards, or readers now.

And, if he'd ever be looked on past the Ku Klux Klan like hood, being Hitler, all that, spreading hate, and all.

If he could be separated from those things, like a fictional, or tamer, person/character, like Doctor Octopus, or Diablo, or Juggernaut, perhaps.

For the most part, I do think characters can be made better, redefined and so on, like Mary Jane under Romita Srs' pen, drawing wise.

Or, when Frank Miller, or Mark Waid, started on Daredevil.

Would the comic be the way it is now, if someone like Garth Ennis, or Mark Millar, started writing it after Black Panther left New York, and Shadowland was over, with Matt back as DD?

If Miller never wrote him, ever, who would be be today?

Same can be said with Susan Storm as well, of course, with how much of a wallflower she could be, or what have you, whereas look at her now, or with other writers, different times.

Jonathan Hickman, Mark Millar, Mark Waid, Dwayne McDuffie.

She's really improve, I say.

[lancerman]

There are no bad ideas in fiction. Only bad executions.

I've seen to many characters who were just caricatures or stereotypes turn into some of the most compelling characters ever.

[Arfguy]

I'm almost 100% certain these have been said, but:

-Nick Fury Jr.
-Squirrel Girl

There are also other characters that I find to be ridiculously stupid, but who may have a compelling backstory/origin, but I can't be bothered:

-Triathalon
-Silverclaw
-Wonderman

[Academyfan0545]

I never understood the purpose of the American Panther. He is very similar to the Daredevil/Wolverine villain known as Nuke.

There are most likely others, but none are coming to mind as of right now.