The FLASH TV SERIES

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Personally, I lost interest in this season as it dragged along, just as I did in Season 3 (and 2, just not to the same extent). A nice change would be to break the season into thirds, and have 3 shorter story arcs. This whole DaVoe story would have been ok if much shorter.

Maybe it's just me showing my age, but...does there really need to be an arc? There was nothing intrinsic to DaVoe that could not have been told in 1-3 episodes. Same for Zoom and Reverse Flash. I can almost see some undercurrent of a plot in constant development, like the one in Castle (though hopefully not that bad). But to stretch a single story out over 6-7 episodes, let alone 23+, seems inclined to fail. It makes me less (rather than more) likely to watch the next episode. Especially since, in this format, all you really need to see is the first and last five minutes of each episode to keep up on the "plot."

Yeah, long-form serialized storytelling has its place but I don't know why they think that place is superhero TV shows. Even in this age of decompression, superhero comics don't really do this, so why should their adaptations. Yes, multiple-episode stories are great, yes keep subplots going from one story to the next and definitely keep on progressing the characters but this can all be done, and done better, with an episodic structure. The current format hasn't worked since season one and it's really such an easy fix.

[Captain Smith]

I agree - what I found with a boring arc is to just record it and watch the finale. If there is any thing interesting, I can go back and back it up. You know most episodes are filler or slow, keep you in suspense reveals.

[LifeIsILL]

I don't mind filler episodes if they are done well (example: "Duet" episode). I think they should use the filler time to develop older villains (Pied Piper) instead of introducing new ones all the time. I can't quite understand why CW shows do this. Flash has one of the most diverse villain galleries, just bring them back again and again while keeping the main baddie throughout the season. What is so hard about that?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't mind filler episodes if they are done well (example: "Duet" episode). I think they should use the filler time to develop older villains (Pied Piper) instead of introducing new ones all the time. I can't quite understand why CW shows do this. Flash has one of the most diverse villain galleries, just bring them back again and again while keeping the main baddie throughout the season. What is so hard about that?

Yeah, what was the damn point of the bus metas, if you're gonna just kill 'em all?

[AnakinFlair]

I don't mind filler episodes if they are done well (example: "Duet" episode). I think they should use the filler time to develop older villains (Pied Piper) instead of introducing new ones all the time. I can't quite understand why CW shows do this. Flash has one of the most diverse villain galleries, just bring them back again and again while keeping the main baddie throughout the season. What is so hard about that?

I think they are stuck on two patterns. The first is Buffy, that did the season-long Big Bad for 6-7 seasons (depending on how you feel about season 6). The second is the old superhero movie formula of the villain always dies at the end. It's like they don't know how to get passed these two tropes.

They had a golden opportunity with the Rogues, but by now Captain Cold is dead, Heatwave is practically reformed, Pied Piper is reformed. You have the Jokster and Weather Wizard in prison, and Golden Glider is MIA.

[Frontier]

They had a golden opportunity with the Rogues, but by now Captain Cold is dead, Heatwave is practically reformed, Pied Piper is reformed. You have the Jokster and Weather Wizard in prison, and Golden Glider is MIA.

I think you mean Trickster .

They also killed off Captain Boomerang on Arrow and I don't think anyone really cares that much about this version of Mirror Master.

[AdamFTF]

Not even to stabilize a pregnant woman's telepathy to keep a speedster inside the mind of a mad metahuman who hi-jacked a bunch of satellites?

Geez, is there some rule that superhero fiction has to write weird pregnancy stuff for a stretch before finding some decent, respectful way to do it? I mean, this isn't as bad as the Carol Danvers/Marcus storyline, the Celestial Messiah or even Linda Park West's disappearing/reappearing twins but it's still weird.

Hollywood, out of respect for all of our mothers, I beg you to not go further down this route.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I think they are stuck on two patterns. The first is Buffy, that did the season-long Big Bad for 6-7 seasons (depending on how you feel about season 6). The second is the old superhero movie formula of the villain always dies at the end. It's like they don't know how to get passed these two tropes.

They had a golden opportunity with the Rogues, but by now Captain Cold is dead, Heatwave is practically reformed, Pied Piper is reformed. You have the Jokster and Weather Wizard in prison, and Golden Glider is MIA.

Yup, the Buffy comparisons are hard to miss. Which is unfortunate for the Flash because it just ain't in the same galaxy quality-wise. Buffy was more ambitious than it looked and if you don't have the writing chops to pull that sort of thing off, you just look all the worse by comparison. Unless they suddenly start producing a much higher level of writing, the Flash should stick to what it does best: fun, standalone superhero adventure with a few character beats and subplots to drive the series forward.

[AnakinFlair]

I think you mean Trickster .

They also killed off Captain Boomerang on Arrow and I don't think anyone really cares that much about this version of Mirror Master.

I forgot all about Captain Boomerang. And Mirror Master, for that matter. And whoever that vertigo chick was.

[Frontier]

I forgot all about Captain Boomerang. And Mirror Master, for that matter. And whoever that vertigo chick was.

It was a female version of The Top.

[Sandy Hausler]

Maybe it's just me showing my age, but...does there really need to be an arc? There was nothing intrinsic to DaVoe that could not have been told in 1-3 episodes. Same for Zoom and Reverse Flash. I can almost see some undercurrent of a plot in constant development, like the one in Castle (though hopefully not that bad). But to stretch a single story out over 6-7 episodes, let alone 23+, seems inclined to fail. It makes me less (rather than more) likely to watch the next episode. Especially since, in this format, all you really need to see is the first and last five minutes of each episode to keep up on the "plot."

I'm in full agreement. There is no need for there to be a big bad, who hangs around for an entire season.

Sandy Hausler

[Zero Hunter]

They had a golden opportunity with the Rogues, but by now Captain Cold is dead, Heatwave is practically reformed, Pied Piper is reformed. You have the Jokster and Weather Wizard in prison, and Golden Glider is MIA.

I kind of wonder how it would go over with fans if they came up with a new Heatwave and Captain Cold for the Flash. Maybe have someone like Gizmo or even bring back the Bug Eyed Bandit to outfit some new muscle with copies of their heat and cold guns or even bring in Chillblaine using tech created by Gizmo. I would still love to see Mirror Master gather up a team of Rogues even without Captain Cold and Heatwave. Maybe even have Golden Glider form the team because she wants payback for the death of her brother.

Golden Glider
Mirror Master
Weather Wizard
Trickster
Chillblaine
Top
Boomerang (did they ever actually show him dead or was it just implied?)
Tar Pit

[Jim Kelly]

I watch Jason Inman sometimes, although it’s self-punishment as he says stuff that I don’t like, and he said recently the problem with the Flash is he doesn’t have great villains.

What th—? If there’s one thing Flash is known for, it’s having a great Rogues Gallery.

The problem on the CW is they burn through hundreds of villains in a year. The big bad gets to stick around for a year, but other villains may only have one episode.

At that rate, by season 5, it might seem like they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel and Flash has no great villains. But it’s only because so many have died too soon, before they could show their value.

[Frontier]

As far as a villain front, I think losing the major Rogues to other shows (Cold and Heat Wave on Legends, Glider on her own CW show and then Gotham) hurt, since it completely curtailed the development of The Rogues that the show had been building up to.

They might have been able to make up for it by making other villains more recurring, but that doesn't really seem to be the show's strong suit.

I remember when they cast Amunet for this season we might see her form a new Rogues team and see "Crossfire" adapted in some form, but then they turned her into more of a joke villain.

[90'sCartoonMan]

What makes me question Iris being pregnant now is the logistics of the TV show. Given they just had a whole season with one pregnancy, would they really do the same thing all over again next season? And the nature of the clffhanger suggests we’ll come back right where we left off. If they had a six month time jump, they could come back with a very pregnant Iris and have the birth in November sweeps.

Why even make Cecile pregnant in the first place? Was it just to give Joe more story? He'd still be fine if they only had Cecile develop telepathy (which is ultimately the most important plot of hers this season). Now that we've done that, you're right, a pregnant Iris would be treading the same ground.

Geez, is there some rule that superhero fiction has to write weird pregnancy stuff for a stretch before finding some decent, respectful way to do it? I mean, this isn't as bad as the Carol Danvers/Marcus storyline, the Celestial Messiah or even Linda Park West's disappearing/reappearing twins but it's still weird.

I think the rule is "If one or more parent has super powers, what do we think that's going to do to the kid?" If you ignore that rule, you're forced to deal with the second rule, "Kids are boring, age them up super fast!"

I kind of wonder how it would go over with fans if they came up with a new Heatwave and Captain Cold for the Flash. Maybe have someone like Gizmo or even bring back the Bug Eyed Bandit to outfit some new muscle with copies of their heat and cold guns or even bring in Chillblaine using tech created by Gizmo. I would still love to see Mirror Master gather up a team of Rogues even without Captain Cold and Heatwave. Maybe even have Golden Glider form the team because she wants payback for the death of her brother.

Golden Glider
Mirror Master
Weather Wizard
Trickster
Chillblaine
Top
Boomerang (did they ever actually show him dead or was it just implied?)
Tar Pit

Although you'd still probably have to recast, I'd be perfectly fine with the same villain from another Earth. Or we could do legacy villains like Chillblaine. Sam Scudder could fight Evan McCullough, either from this Earth or HR's (?). The Rogues should've been semi-supporting characters in the first place, or at the very least recurring like Grodd and Amunet, but I don't think it's too late to salvage them.

I watch Jason Inman sometimes, although it’s self-punishment as he says stuff that I don’t like, and he said recently the problem with the Flash is he doesn’t have great villains.

What th—? If there’s one thing Flash is known for, it’s having a great Rogues Gallery.

Was he talking about just the show or the Flash in general?