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Thread: The FLASH

  1. #9166
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Buffy wasn't really a superhero show though. Buffy was more horror/fantasy. Smallville is the show that begat Arrow, that begat Flash, that begat Legends of Tomorrow. And Supergirl and Black Lightning are from the same producers.
    I would argue that Buffy certainly is a superhero show (especially given how episodes are strewn with comic book references and superhero tropes) but that's beside the point...I agree that Smallville inspired those shows but they hopped on the big bad wave because of Buffy and other shows inspired by Buffy.

    Out of the 10 seasons, there were only maybe 5 season-long big bads. Jason Teague, Brainiac Lex, Doomsday, Zod, and Darkseid.

    There were definitely recurring antagonists like Slade Wilson and Lionel Luthor, however the discussion here is season-long arcs solely reliant on one main villain. Smallville really never had that until the later seasons, and by that point it was already a huge part of tons of TV shows.
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  2. #9167
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I know Guggenheim has said early on that they often follow the Joss Whedon/Buffy handbook as far as Big Bads are concerned.

  3. #9168
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    One problem with the whole season Big Bad is that the good guys have to have convoluted plots to avoid just taking out the Big Bad early. This is especially true if the Big Bad is weak. Both the Flash and Arrow villains could just be eliminated. I know - good guys don't kill, blah, blah. However when decide to go vigilante and the Big Bad is a proven murderer - let's cut to the chase.

    Supergirl's Reign is more of a challenge as were some of Buffy's. However, the Flash and Arrow could just shut their guys down quickly, so to speak.

    If you want a long campaign - you really need a good villain. I agree that you need to throw in some one shots. X-Files did that but eventually and now are falling into Cig. Dude and endless aliens.

  4. #9169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    No it was definitely Buffy. The very term "big bad" was popularized with that show with different big bads either set up halfway through the season or right at the very beginning.
    No it wasn't. Season long villains being defeated by the hero at the end is a very old trope going back centuries. WTH! The term big bad is just short for big bad wolf hence why Joss used it as description for his villains. They'd literally show up in town to disturb the hero just like the big bad wolf did in the 3 little pigs.

    Also 80's anime/cartoons got Americans used to the trope of a villain sitting in their lair trying every episode to defeat the hero but always failing then said villain being defeated in the finale.

  5. #9170
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushidoBlade2 View Post
    No it wasn't. Season long villains being defeated by the hero at the end is a very old trope going back centuries. WTH! The term big bad is just short for big bad wolf hence why Joss used it as description for his villains. They'd literally show up in town to disturb the hero just like the big bad wolf did in the 3 little pigs.

    Also 80's anime/cartoons got Americans used to the trope of a villain sitting in their lair trying every episode to defeat the hero but always failing then said villain being defeated in the finale.
    Centuries? Maybe 200 years ago there were Big bads in literature but unless it took 24 books to beat the bad guy im not sure how its really the samr as the season long Tv arc.

  6. #9171
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    I think it would be better for the Berlanti shows if they all had half seasons--except THE FLASH. They could have SUPERGIRL and ARROW in the first half; LEGENDS OF TOMORROW and BLACK LIGHTNING in the second half.

    I feel like BL is so good because they are only doing 13 episodes this seasons. If they had to fill 23 episodes, their resources would be stretched. Likewise, LEGENDS has tended to benefit from having a shorter season than the others.

    ARROW is in pretty bad shape, so maybe a half season would help the writers to focus on doing more with less. SUPERGIRL seems to be doing okay in the ratings, but it would be better with less episodes. However, THE FLASH is stil the strongest show, in terms of ratings, so I don't expect the CW to cut it down.

    With the other shows cut that could help the FLASH. They would have more resources for the crossovers--and maybe more team-ups on THE FLASH, to help promote those other shows. And there would be room in the schedule to develop another series or two.
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  7. #9172
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    The major point is that the Big Bad can't be the Big Bad Boring and the Big Bad can't be Big Bag Easy to Get Rid of without PIS.

    It took several years to win WWII. That's because it was a real challenge. Morgan Edge or the schmucks on Arrow or Flash - child's play for the heroes if they didn't screw around.

  8. #9173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Centuries? Maybe 200 years ago there were Big bads in literature
    The Greek Gods vs the Titans is like three THOUSAND years old.

  9. #9174
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    Myself I was actually a big fan of Chuck and how it did its, "Big Bad." Because you didn't always realize it was the Big Bad until the end of season. The most memorable example is Chuck's sister getting married. The wedding was the "Big Bad." It was mentioned in every episode, but you truly didn't realize how important it was until you got there.

    Supernatural likes to do the Big Bad too, but the past few seasons have been so much better. You actually have a few different storylines and it is difficult to determine what will be the end result.
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  10. #9175
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    No it was definitely Buffy. The very term "big bad" was popularized with that show with different big bads either set up halfway through the season or right at the very beginning. It was the biggest part of the show.

    Angel on the other hand pretty much had the same group of big bads for its entire run.
    I kind of like how Angel did it (although Wolfram and Hart were a little TOO formidable that they could never really be defeated). They didn't necessarily have season long Big Bads, but they did have recurring larger villains that could be beaten by the end of the season. Like Holtz in season 3 or Jasmine in season 4. Of the CW superhero shows, only Supergirl seems to go with the idea that you don't need to know who the showdown villain of the season will be until towards the end. The others seem to want to give the Big Bads plenty of build-up throughout the whole season. Which, in some cases, can be problematic.

    I think this season has been the best, most consistent season of the Flash since season 1. I liked season 2 up until "Jay Garrick" turned out to be a looney, and then season 3 had me a little bored with speedster villains, although I thought it picked back up with trying to prevent Iris' death.

    Quote Originally Posted by BushidoBlade2 View Post
    Also 80's anime/cartoons got Americans used to the trope of a villain sitting in their lair trying every episode to defeat the hero but always failing then said villain being defeated in the finale.
    80's cartoons got me used to villains shaking their fists at the heroes and getting away and then NEVER being defeated permanently.

  11. #9176
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Out of the 10 seasons, there were only maybe 5 season-long big bads. Jason Teague, Brainiac Lex, Doomsday, Zod, and Darkseid.

    There were definitely recurring antagonists like Slade Wilson and Lionel Luthor, however the discussion here is season-long arcs solely reliant on one main villain. Smallville really never had that until the later seasons, and by that point it was already a huge part of tons of TV shows.
    For a few seconds I was, like, "Slade was in Smallville?!" and then I remembered and was all, "Dang... Slade was in Smallville"

  12. #9177
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Well, that was somewhat bizarre.
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  13. #9178
    Mighty Member Thor2014's Avatar
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    Is that the F-ing Fiddler next week?

  14. #9179
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    I’m sorry but the thinker is the dumbest villain yet! I know they didn’t want to do another speedster and I understand that but they have no idea what to do with this bozo character.

    That said I am enjoying the more self contained episodes.

  15. #9180
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    I enjoy the series overall, but damn the internal logic always seems mixed with Silver Age and pure cynicism.

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    That's right up there with Waller trying to blow up Star City to contain a few super soldiers.

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