The FLASH TV SERIES

[Keeper of the Crows]

You just pointed out why people find this particular plot element so frustrating. If the right choice is so obvious to the viewers, it makes the protagonists look bone-stupid as opposed to simply being flawed.

I think part of it is that this particular plot point—much like the Iris situation—was drawn out too long before being addressed in a somewhat definitive manner. But some of that may have been due to the expanded series order reshuffling the deck. I would personally disagree with the protagonists being bone-stupid, but I think that's one of those "agree to disagree" things.

(On the whole, I think the Flash as a show has had excellent pacing, with a few notable exceptions. A lot has happened in these 22 episodes, especially compared to other shows that advance at a glacial pace.)

[Kalen O.]

Look the problem with the Pipeline at the end of the day was it was lazy writing. The writers didn't think through to some fairly obvious implications of having their vigilante just lock up people in his own private jail and they got called out for it. I don't see it as unreasonable for viewers to expect a show to expend some brainpower thinking through their plot points before they cement them. As others have pointed out, LOTS of people saw the problem with the Pipeline arrangement from day one. Ultimately we're not really arguing against the characters' motivations, because the characters' motivations are at the whims of the writers and the problem here was very visibly that the writers didn't see the problems until it was too late.

I dunno, I'm just saying for me its kinda pointless to go around in circles arguing about how much the characters were or weren't justified in using the Pipeline when the problem I want to see addressed is the writers being a little more proactive in the future in thinking through their plot points to the implications and not just looking for quick easy resolutions to big plot problems like 'what to do with metahuman criminals.' The entire premise of this show is Flash fighting the kinds of criminals the police weren't equipped to handle. The question of what to do with the criminals once Flash has dealt with them SHOULDN'T have a neat, tied in a bow resolution. Its a big plot element and essential to the premise. Its not the sort of thing that should be handled in the last three minutes of each episode and expect not to have followup questions or repercussions. Hence I say, the Pipeline and the lack of followup to each use of the Pipeline was lazy writing from the start, and the real issue here. Not Barry and company's motivations and justifications.

[7thangel]

You're not offering any feasible alternatives.

y'know, the vastly inferior powers found a way. the only reason they don't have feasible alternatives for some is because the writers didn't bother to think about. at least that's the way it seems to some of us.

yes, barry and the gang are the good guys, who just happened to be a party to felony murder and kidnapping and illegally hacking and breaking and entering to erase police, state and federal files. maybe he can spend the weekends in the pipeline

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

y'know, the vastly inferior powers found a way. the only reason they don't have feasible alternatives for some is because the writers didn't bother to think about. at least that's the way it seems to some of us.

yes, barry and the gang are the good guys, who just happened to be a party to felony murder and kidnapping and illegally hacking and breaking and entering to erase police, state and federal files. maybe he can spend the weekends in the pipeline

Inter arma enim silent leges. in time of war the law falls silent. Barry and Oliver are fighting a war. This isn't the case of someone with a different skin tone getting shot, beaten or locked up for being in the "wrong neighborhood" these are people who have been whitnessed commiting serious acts of violence and criminal behavior

[Agent Z]

Inter arma enim silent leges. in time of war the law falls silent. Barry and Oliver are fighting a war.

Um, war is kind of an exaggeration.

[Kalen O.]

Inter arma enim silent leges. in time of war the law falls silent. Barry and Oliver are fighting a war.

Yeah, they're really not. A war is between two sides, not one side and everyone who happens to be their enemy or at cross purposes to them.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Re-watched the scene where Peek broke loose. Those pods are on a track that circles throughout the entire reactor. There aren't any connecting points to larger cells. You can see that just by watching Peek's pod move. As it slides to the right, there's nothing behind it except solid wall. Heh, that is terrible.

[7thangel]

Inter arma enim silent leges. in time of war the law falls silent. Barry and Oliver are fighting a war. This isn't the case of someone with a different skin tone getting shot, beaten or locked up for being in the "wrong neighborhood" these are people who have been whitnessed commiting serious acts of violence and criminal behavior

i don't know how to respond to this exaggeration. as it's been said, this isn't war. and what i'm being snarky about is the last episode, y'know, the breaking and entering and erasing of files, the kidnapping and transporting, and the possible killing of one of the escaped prisoners by a well known criminal accomplice. oops, he's no longer a criminal thanks to the whole erasing.

but since you brought it up, there are still rules and laws in war

[The Cool Thatguy]

i don't know how to respond to this exaggeration. as it's been said, this isn't war. and what i'm being snarky about is the last episode, y'know, the breaking and entering and erasing of files, the kidnapping and transporting, and the possible killing of one of the escaped prisoners by a well known criminal accomplice. oops, he's no longer a criminal thanks to the whole erasing.

but since you brought it up, there are still rules and laws in war

Personally, I wonder what was the point of destroying all that evidence and such. It's not like the charges were dropped or anything, and he's still a criminal. As soon as the cops realize something happened, they'd just recreate the files.

[sneakyflute]

i don't know how to respond to this exaggeration. as it's been said, this isn't war. and what i'm being snarky about is the last episode, y'know, the breaking and entering and erasing of files, the kidnapping and transporting, and the possible killing of one of the escaped prisoners by a well known criminal accomplice. oops, he's no longer a criminal thanks to the whole erasing.

but since you brought it up, there are still rules and laws in war

They can't go through conventional legal channels for obvious reasons and no one else is equipped to handle these metahumans. That's the point of the show. These superhumans are killing people in plain sight and your issue is that they don't have legal counsel?

[Agent Z]

They can't go through conventional legal channels for obvious reasons and no one else is equipped to handle these metahumans. That's the point of the show. These superhumans are killing people in plain sight and your issue is that they don't have legal counsel?

No one else is equipped to handle the metas because Barry and co won't provide them the necessary tools to do so.

[The Cool Thatguy]

No one else is equipped to handle the metas because Barry and co won't provide them the necessary tools to do so.

Exactly. The state can afford to build adequate prisons, they have the blue prints and the ability to provide care and security. And (even though we know nothing is 100% secure), they could do it better than a handful of scientists.

[Kalen O.]

They can't go through conventional legal channels for obvious reasons and no one else is equipped to handle these metahumans. That's the point of the show. These superhumans are killing people in plain sight and your issue is that they don't have legal counsel?

Nobody's saying Barry's not the best equipped to FIGHT these metahumans. But just like in real life, the police exist to protect people, fight crime and arrest people. They are NOT in charge of who actually goes to prison and for how long. That's left to an entirely separate arm of our legal system for a reason. That's up to lawyers, judges and juries. And there's literally no reason for it to be any different here once metahumans became official knowledge of the police and justice system. Barry can still fight the superhumans that only he can deal with. But its still not his place to play judge and jury anymore than its the police's place with the criminals they arrest.

[7thangel]

They can't go through conventional legal channels for obvious reasons and no one else is equipped to handle these metahumans. That's the point of the show. These superhumans are killing people in plain sight and your issue is that they don't have legal counsel?

if you want to reduce the things i posted down to me having an issue because they don't have legal counsel, go ahead.

i mean, sure, part of the courts is sentencing, because not everybody is a mass murderer. and sure, sometimes it makes the courts try to ensure that the arrests and charges aren't trumped up and legal. but obviously they don't need any of that, because they're metahumans and dangerous. now, of course if some straight laced metahuman hero captures barry for the crimes he committed in this episode and locked him up in a box indefinitely, so be it.

if some alcoholic octogenarian can build a power dampener in an inferior show like powers, surely these young healthy geniuses could have come up with something similar, like they do every week.

at this point, since they can't afford to pay for a front door lock, they could get some gov't funding or a lucrative contract with the city and state

[Kensei]

What do you suppose will ultimately happen with Grodd? I doubt anyone could successfully argue that since he has been given semi-human intelligence that he automatically deserves due process. He is an animal and trying to put him on trial would be ridiculous. Were he to be put into the pipeline, I'm thinking he would spend every waking moment violently trying to escape and would probably smash his way out eventually. So what's the alternative? It wouldn't be very hero-like to outrightly kill him, and the only other option would seem to be keeping him permanently sedated, in which case he might as well be dead anyway. He is quite literally the 800-pound gorilla in the room.

I suppose they could work out a way to reverse the process that gave him his powers and return him to being just a regular gorilla, but that almost seems sad in a way to contemplate. Kind of like "Flowers for Algernon." Who knows, it might make for some good emotional drama.