The FLASH TV SERIES

[kalorama]

In his first appearance, Eiling swaggered into the police department and instantaneously had the full resources and cooperation of the department at his beck and call in the hunt for Plastique. He made it perfectly clear that he had no intention of arresting her and turning her over to the justice system for her crimes. He fully intended to take her back and either brainwash her into being his weapon, or take her apart and learn how to make more of her.

He didn't need to "brainwash her into being his weapon." Plastique essentially volunteered to be his weapon when she willingly joined the military and became part of Eiling's black ops squad before she got her powers. By going AWOL, she became a fugitive from military justice, which gave the military jurisdiction in her apprehension.

[Vanguard-01]

Plastique was an awol Sargent under his command, not a civilian.

I won't speak on Waller because I don't watch Arrow and don't know her job status.

Waller is an official agent at ARGUS. She runs the "Suicide Squad." It's a group of convicts who Waller either captures herself, or recruits right out of prison. She then sends them on highly dangerous black ops missions. So dangerous, that they are not expected to survive them, in fact. That's why they're called the Suicide Squad. But if they do survive, Waller gets them a reduced sentence. Oh! And she puts tiny bombs in their necks, so if they attempt to escape her in any way, she blows their heads off.

If she can recruit ordinary convicts in prison? She can easily do the same thing with the meta prisoners.

He didn't need to "brainwash her into being his weapon." Plastique essentially volunteered to be his weapon when she willingly joined the military and became part of Eiling's black ops squad before she got her powers. By going AWOL, she became a fugitive from military justice, which gave the military jurisdiction in her apprehension.

Eiling was still able to basically take over the police force for his own purposes. He can easily show up with the proper papers and demand that they hand over the meta prisoners, as well. And there would be NOTHING that Joe, Singh, Barry, or anyone else could do about it.

[zhris]

The answer to "Why doesn't Barry et al help build meta prisons?" is "Because that would be the Most Boring Episode Ever."

Any fiction requires suspension of disbelief, and the more fantastical the fiction is the more suspension is required.

[chico25]

The answer to "Why doesn't Barry et al help build meta prisons?" is "Because that would be the Most Boring Episode Ever."

Any fiction requires suspension of disbelief, and the more fantastical the fiction is the more suspension is required.

I was perfectly willing to look the other way on the pipeline thing but the show brought it up as a plot point so it's fair game criticism that it is handled poorly.

Also it would just take a two minute scene to show and arrangement being made with the cops then gloss over everything else because as you say no one would care.

[chico25]

Waller is an official agent at ARGUS. She runs the "Suicide Squad." It's a group of convicts who Waller either captures herself, or recruits right out of prison. She then sends them on highly dangerous black ops missions. So dangerous, that they are not expected to survive them, in fact. That's why they're called the Suicide Squad. But if they do survive, Waller gets them a reduced sentence. Oh! And she puts tiny bombs in their necks, so if they attempt to escape her in any way, she blows their heads off.

If she can recruit ordinary convicts in prison? She can easily do the same thing with the meta prisoners.



Eiling was still able to basically take over the police force for his own purposes. He can easily show up with the proper papers and demand that they hand over the meta prisoners, as well. And there would be NOTHING that Joe, Singh, Barry, or anyone else could do about it.

Eiling had jurisdiction which allowed him to take over because she was awol. The FBI or any other law enforcement agency could do the same. They would need to have documents showing jurisdiction and in a case less clear cut than and awol officer Eiling would have a tougher time proving he needs to be involved.

If the convicts Waller recruits are given a choice and know what they are signing up for and it is considered legal, it is pretty much a high risk high reward work release program. I don't see how an opportunity to earn there freedom is somehow worse than being in solitary confinement without a trial forever.

[Vanguard-01]

Eiling had jurisdiction which allowed him to take over because she was awol. The FBI or any other law enforcement agency could do the same. They would need to have documents showing jurisdiction and in a case less clear cut than and awol officer Eiling would have a tougher time proving he needs to be involved.

Ever since 9/11, the government has been able to do basically anything when invoking "National Security." Eiling would have no difficulty gaining everything he needs to seize custody of those people. Literally. No trouble at all. Worst case? He needs to make one phone call to his immediate supervisors, requesting the necessary authorization to take them. Assuming he doesn't have the authority all by himself.

If the convicts Waller recruits are given a choice and know what they are signing up for and it is considered legal, it is pretty much a high risk high reward work release program. I don't see how an opportunity to earn there freedom is somehow worse than being in solitary confinement without a trial forever.

They are not given a real choice. Waller "recruited" Oliver Queen before he returned home. And by "recruited?" I mean "She kidnapped him to China, put a gun to his head, and FORCED him to kill and torture for her." When he refused to play ball once? She made threats against his family. Oliver, at this time, had committed no crimes. He had nothing for which he had to atone. Waller kidnapped a United States citizen and effectively enslaved him.

Waller doesn't really give the cons a choice. If she wants you doing her bidding? She will force you to.

Oh! She also hasn't yet shown a tendency to deliver on her promise of an early release. We've never seen anyone leave the Suicide Squad except by either dying or going to extreme measures to get Waller off their backs.

[chico25]

Ever since 9/11, the government has been able to do basically anything when invoking "National Security." Eiling would have no difficulty gaining everything he needs to seize custody of those people. Literally. No trouble at all. Worst case? He needs to make one phone call to his immediate supervisors, requesting the necessary authorization to take them. Assuming he doesn't have the authority all by himself.



They are not given a real choice. Waller "recruited" Oliver Queen before he returned home. And by "recruited?" I mean "She kidnapped him to China, put a gun to his head, and FORCED him to kill and torture for her." When he refused to play ball once? She made threats against his family. Oliver, at this time, had committed no crimes. He had nothing for which he had to atone. Waller kidnapped a United States citizen and effectively enslaved him.

Waller doesn't really give the cons a choice. If she wants you doing her bidding? She will force you to.

Oh! She also hasn't yet shown a tendency to deliver on her promise of an early release. We've never seen anyone leave the Suicide Squad except by either dying or going to extreme measures to get Waller off their backs.

If Eiling wanted metahumans in the pipeline he could take them just as easily while having the entire team arrested for wrongful imprisonment. The pipeline isn't protecting the metahumans from him.

Waller seems like she needs to be shut down and exposed but that isn't a valid reason to deny criminals rights and due process.

[Vanguard-01]

If Eiling wanted metahumans in the pipeline he could take them just as easily while having the entire team arrested for wrongful imprisonment. The pipeline isn't protecting the metahumans from him.

Flash might have a thing or two to say about Eiling trying to arrest him and his friends. And he can potentially call in reinforcements, if need be.

Then he's got a nice, big war in the middle of a major city. Now THAT'S more exposure and bad press than he'd want to deal with.

Either way, the important thing is that the metas are better off in the custody of Team Flash than in the custody of a sociopath who WILL try to turn them into weapons.

Don't get me wrong: I agree with you that more should have been done by Team Flash to find a more permanent solution. But simply turning the metas over to the proper authorities isn't the be-all-end-all solution you're making it out to be.

Waller seems like she needs to be shut down and exposed but that isn't a valid reason to deny criminals rights and due process.

I didn't say it was.

I was saying that there are worse things that can happen to the metas than being held in a glorified penalty box by a team of good-intentioned people. Falling into Waller's hands, or Eiling's hands, is definitely worse.

[Kalen O.]

I was saying that there are worse things that can happen to the metas than being held in a glorified penalty box by a team of good-intentioned people. Falling into Waller's hands, or Eiling's hands, is definitely worse.

This is true.

And utterly irrelevant to any discussion of whether or not Barry's actions are justifiable.

Just because there's a worse fate out there, let's halt discussion of the actual fate? That doesn't make any sense.

[thales]

I was saying that there are worse things that can happen to the metas than being held in a glorified penalty box by a team of good-intentioned people. Falling into Waller's hands, or Eiling's hands, is definitely worse.

"In 2008, clinical psychologist Ian Robbins recreated Hebb’s experiment in collaboration with the BBC, isolating six volunteers for 48 hours in sound-proofed rooms in a former nuclear bunker. The results were similar. The volunteers suffered anxiety, extreme emotions, paranoia and significant deterioration in their mental functioning. They also hallucinated: a heap of 5,000 empty oyster shells; a snake; zebras; tiny cars; the room taking off; mosquitoes; fighter planes buzzing around."
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2014...on-warps-minds

And some of the Flash prisoners had been in isolation for months.

Of course, almost anything can be justified if your justification is "could be worst"

[Punisher007]

Hell just look at all of people who get sent to ORDINARY prison, which is much less isolated than this one, and come out worse than they were than they went in. Or get sent to solitary confinement for mere days/weeks and still have mental breakdowns.

Yeah sure, there are "worse" things. But then again there are worse ways to die than getting shot, but that doesn't mean that it's a pleasant experience or recommended.

[Vanguard-01]

The point is that turning the metas over to the proper authorities GUARANTEES that these worse scenarios will happen. Once the metas are in a known location that Eiling or Waller can easily access? Nothing would stop them from doing that. It would not be a question of "If." It would be a question of "When."

Also? This is where it's important to remember that this is a fictional world, and we're supposed to have insight into the characters' personalities. Are Barry, Caitlin, Cisco, and Joe bad people? No, they are not. Are they stupid? Nope. Caitlin is a medical doctor. Is she somehow unaware of the effects of isolation upon people? Nope.

What does all this information mean? It means that, unless we've been rooting for a bunch of sociopaths this whole time, it can be assumed that they made certain that their methods of containing the metas were as humane as possible. The cells weren't filthy? Somehow they have a way to keep them clean and tend to the metas biological functions. The metas didn't appear starved? Clearly, they have a way to feed them and keep them hydrated. Aside from Peekaboo, the other metas were already sociopaths to begin with, so it's debatable how serious a problem isolation would be for them. And Peekaboo didn't seem any less psychologically stable, apart from her willingness to kill to escape her prison.

What does all of this tell me? That somehow, Team Flash has found ways to deal with these issues and prevent the metas from undergoing the stresses to which we refer. They're heroes. They wouldn't torture people. The only thing they're guilty of, here, is illegal imprisonment. Not torture. Not any act of malice. And the illegal imprisonment issue was always intended to be a short-term thing, anyway.

Just because the show didn't show us Team Flash dealing with these issues doesn't mean that they didn't. It just meant that the writers assumed that we would trust that they wouldn't do the things of which they're being accused, here.

You can either accept that Team Flash is composed of good people who wouldn't needlessly harm people, or you can accept that they're all sociopaths and either watch the show as another version of Dexter or stop watching the show because it's not the kind of hero story you want to watch.

That is all.

[thales]

Or the writers dropped the ball and didn't think the scenario through until it got so loud on the interwebs they came up with an easy way out without really dealing with the underlying problem. Because, as you said, it is a fictional world. Team Flash doesn't have to deal with anything until the story force them to.

[Tracer Bullet]

I believe they were thought to be dead, after the particle accelerator incident. So, no point in telling their families that they were really alive and are dead now.

I think that was true for Blackout(and what he was doing for the year he was missing is kind of a plot hole) but Girder as well? What's the explanation for these metas only going public after Barry got out of the coma?

[Greg]

OK, watched the last episode of Flash... who the heck was Doug Jones' character and when did he appear? I don't remember him at all.