The FLASH TV SERIES

[Sirzechs]

And the problem with this argument is that the pre and Nu52 Flash universe already had multi-racial characters. There was no need to change the race of a long time character. Which by the way as a person of colour I find patronizing and condescending. As if I'll be mollified and want to tune in just because they stick in a Black cast member. One of the reasons I started watching Starz' 'Power' was not just because it was mostly an African American cast. But because they had Black characters who are written as being intelligent, ambitious and dignified. This attracts me more so than just sticking in a token character who will just end up being wall paper.

TBF Wally had the multi racial cast, Barry was similar to the Fantastic four all white.

[The Darknight Detective]

Disagree. There is a need when the original supporting cast does not reflect a modern America where 1 out of 3 citizens are not white. This is the fault of the comic book companies not updating their rosters until it was way too late.

That's the main reason why I don't get crazy about the racial changes. Even as a teen 30-35 years ago, I thought some adjustments were needed. Yes, you can create new minority supporting characters, but will they get enough face time?

[Sodam Yat]

So Professor Zoom may not be from the far distant future it seems. I'm guessing they call him Eddie instead of Eobard, because of the complicated name pronunciation. I like the action and this is only from the first episode. Very impressive.

[The Whovian]

Nope, I think not.

If Harrison Wells is anyone, I suspect he's Max Mercury.

Edward Thawne *is* Professor Zoom, the Reverse-Flash. Think about it. They have Iris basically seduced into a romantic relationship with her eventual murderer (okay, attempted murderer).

When Thawne outs himself? Hoo-boy, it's gonna be one helluva an episode!

Then why did it show him at the end with yellow lightning around him? Wells has to be the Reverse Flash

[The Whovian]

Too late. It's already been confirmed that Berlanti, Kreisberg and Johns are going to give us a CW version of the Justice League:

http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2014/0...league-tv.html

Looks like the line-up will be Green Arrow, The Flash, Firestorm and The Atom. I'm hoping Cisco fulfills his destiny and becomes Vibe, too.

I know it's going to happen, I'm saying they should keep them separate. But they're not going to

[The Whovian]

And the problem with this argument is that the pre and Nu52 Flash universe already had multi-racial characters. There was no need to change the race of a long time character. Which by the way as a person of colour I find patronizing and condescending. As if I'll be mollified and want to tune in just because they stick in a Black cast member. One of the reasons I started watching Starz' 'Power' was not just because it was mostly an African American cast. But because they had Black characters who are written as being intelligent, ambitious and dignified. This attracts me more so than just sticking in a token character who will just end up being wall paper.

Agreed with what you just said, thank you

[The Whovian]

And the problem with THAT argument is ... who are they? I haven't followed the New52 Flash comic. What significant POC characters have been introduced and do ANY of them occupy a space within the Flashverse as significant as Iris West? I can't think of any pre-Flashpoint other than Linda Park (who was in the pilot episode).



Disagree. There is a need when the original supporting cast does not reflect a modern America where 1 out of 3 citizens are not white. This is the fault of the comic book companies not updating their rosters until it was way too late. You can either be pro-active about change or have it forced on you, but it's coming regardless.



Personally, as a person of color (South Asian descent), I look forward to a day when race won't be a prerequisite for a fictional role. Probably not within my lifetime.

But If you seriously think that, within the Flashverse, Iris West "will just end up being wall paper", then you don't know the Flash anywhere near as well as you think. Iris West is the Lois Lane of that miniverse, the Queen of that franchise. The most important person after the Flash.

Can't wait to meet young (and black) Wally West on the show.

So if they ever made a Wonder Woman tv show, you would be fine if they cast the character as a black woman?

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

LOL at ARROW being "more realistic". Not since Miru-kuru, my friend. That ARROW show is just as comic-booky as THE FLASH in its own way.

- Actually liked the accelerator origin. No need to waste time explaining why there are so many metahumans nearby. Also, love that they made "metahumans" a thing on the show.

- This is Barry's show, not Wally's, not Jay's, not Bart's. The other once-Flashes, if/when they show up, will have their stories bent to fit Barry's needs, not the other way around.

- Not a big fan of the adopted brother/sister vibe and the resultant friend-zoning, especially since it's likely that Iris and Barry will ultimately fall in love with each other at some point.

- About the race-swapping from white to black for Iris: a bit of context is required.

When Iris West was created back in the 1950s, there were no significant people of color (POC) within those pages of the comic books at the time. Comic books have rarely been ahead of the curve. Usually, the medium at least as pertains to superheroes, is far, far behind the curve.

Now, the fact that it's 2014 and the percentages of POCs in superhero comix is still far below their actual representation in modern America means there is plenty of blame to around. About half the blame goes with the comic book companies, who never bothered to introduce POCs when the "iconic" characters were being created, and the other half of the blame goes to the comic book readers, who rarely or never financially support the few titles with a POC as the lead*.

TV people want to make money. And they know there's more money to be made by being inclusive than being exclusive. They know that, all other qualities being about even, more eyeballs will watch a multi-chromatic show than a mono-chromatic show (or will at least be more heralded for it).

Lastly, don't act like changing the ethnicity of Iris West, a supporting character that no one outside the Flashverse fandom cares about, would have remotely the same effect as changing an actual money-maker like Superman or Batman in the same way. This is not a big deal. The only outcry are from "fans" who a) can't let go of their childhood being exactly as it was and b) can't hide their own racial prejudices.

- Flash's enemies aren't the psycho-stalker variety that haunt Batman. Flash's ID used to be public (Wally) and he did just fine then. Secret Identities are so passe anyway (at least if you're not Clark, Bruce or Peter). Superheroes in the real-world would be celebrities akin to rock stars or movie stars or even politicians.

- Once again, ARROW is a very comic booky show and is hardly realistic. There should be some synergy between the two shows, but it should be rare enough that it's still a big deal when they do crossover.


* - SPAWN doesn't count when you can't tell what ethnicity he is/was due to his full-face mask and fleshless inhuman zombie face underneath.

Convincing point about the race swapping. I wouldn't have a problem if things don't get set in stone, which of course, implies that there can be a white Iris with an Chinese Barry next time. Otherwise, I'd prefer classic. No logic behind my reasoning, though.

In this show it's clear that there is an intention to keep a secret identity. Maybe they can explore the topic with Ralph Dibny, perhaps the first DC superhero to ditch the mask (and he didn't even made a big deal, at some point he wasn't really doing much with his private identity and he dated Sue as EM).

Let's hope no psychos besides Zoom.

[The Darknight Detective]

So if they ever made a Wonder Woman tv show, you would be fine if they cast the character as a black woman?

Diana is too well known with mainstream audiences for that to happen. Same goes for Clark, Bruce, and Dick.

[The Whovian]

Diana is too well known with mainstream audiences for that to happen. Sames goes for Clark, Bruce, and Dick.

So again, are they catering to people who want the token black person/diversity or are people cherry picking who they think it's okay to change their ethnicity? And by "they" I mean some people on these boards.

In other words, it's okay for Iris to be black because she's not a major character, but we're stuck up fan boys who cling to our childhood comic book reading for not wanting her to be changed just for the sake of change and trying to draw in more viewers?

[The Darknight Detective]

So again, are they catering to people who want the token black person/diversity or are people cherry picking who they think it's okay to change their ethnicity? And by "they" I mean some people on these boards.

In other words, it's okay for Iris to be black because she's not a major character, but we're stuck up fan boys who cling to our childhood comic book reading for not wanting her to be changed just for the sake of change and trying to draw in more viewers?

It has nothing to do whether or not Iris is a major character (which she is, of course). The average person beyond comic book fandom doesn't know who she is, so the vast majority of viewers could care less about her racial identity. Now, if she was very recognizable like a Lois Lane, she would still be white.

[The Whovian]

It has nothing to do whether or not Iris is a major character (which she is, of course). The average person beyond comic book fandom doesn't know who she is, so the vast majority of viewers could care less about her racial identity. Now, if she was very recognizable like a Lois Lane, she would still be white.

So it is just them making her a token black character then

[The Darknight Detective]

So it is just them making her a token black character then

It was done to draw more African-American viewers to the show, which is not an unreasonable thing to do, IMO.

[Sirzechs]

So if they ever made a Wonder Woman tv show, you would be fine if they cast the character as a black woman?

Iris isn't the same as Wonder Woman so that comparison is invalid, the TV Universe isn't the same as the Comic universe so not every Character has to be the same, funny enough i heard this exact same argument when Etta Candy was revamped in the New 52

[KabutoRyder]

I enjoyed the premiere when I first saw the 'leaked' wink wink pilot earlier this year. There is some expected cheesiness, (I cringed at the prison hand on the glass bit), but lots to love about it and John Wesley Motherf'n Shipp? Hell yes.
I can't wait to see Amanda Pays again as well, and playing the same character as the old school Flash TV show. Yes.
Love how we're getting powers off top with this show. Ready for the second episode and geeked for the crossover episode with Arrow already.