The FLASH TV SERIES

[maczero]

Couldn't Eddie have just.....gotten a vasectomy?

I was thinking the same thing. Although, vasectomies can be reversed and the urge to procreate is strong. If things worked out with Iris, I can see she and Eddie saying screw the future and still bringing a new Thawne into the world.

Yup, she was there. Also the Flash museum and Barry in handcuffs

Nice catch. And Caitlyn isn't looking bad as KF. I approve.

But, what if RF did exist..up until that point of time, he did. In that case, his death won't affect the past versions of him (consider his life in a straight line..doesn't matter where he is living...). The one that died now is the most ''recent' version..so it doesn't have to affect any of the past events.

That's not necessarily true. Barry becoming the Flash originally had nothing to do with Thawne. He became the Flash before Thawne came back and killed his mom. If he hadn't, then Thawne wouldn't have had any reason to come back in the first place. Thawne didn't "create" the Flash so much as altered the circumstances of the Flash's creation. Basically, this entire season has been an alternate timeline, diverged from Thawne's original one. So Thawne having never existed could simply reset the timeline back to its original state and restore the Flash's "original" origin (whatever that was).

But wouldn't that mean if the original timeline is in effect then Barry shouldn't be the Flash yet.

At this point putting every single person at Star Labs on trial for crimes against humanity would be going easy on them.

Hee!

Considering all the risks involved, I find it hard to buy that that they all agreed to go through with the plan... especially since it depended on trusting that what Wells said was true. And even if Barry wanted to save his mom, they didn't have to let Wells leave as part of it. The show tried really hard to get the audience on board with Barry fixing his life, but it didn't ring true with me. And the added drama of that scene with Barry's dad didn't ring true either because Barry could have just said that Thawne had already screwed with the timeline and that Barry will become the Flash anyway even if his mom lives (the original timeline).

I know some people hate to examine the ethical choices of our heroes but I have to point out how bothered I was that team Flash was on board with Barry going back in time. I mean even if they're comfortable with how altering the timeline will have an effect on countless others, then at least they should have stopped him from going back when they found out the additional risk of creating a black hole.

Even though Barry didn't save his mom, is it possible that his going back still created a butterfly effect?

[Shade]

I loved that bit. Has any one else ever noticed that big gold mural in the police station? If you look at it close it sort of looks like a little easter egg to the JSA to me.

The mural is of the Greek gods, done in representation of the Justice League.
640_The_Flash_Justice_League_Mural.jpg

Anyone else notice the odd looking medallion or necklace that appeared on Eddie as he was being pulled into the black hole?
eddie.jpg

[kalorama]

But wouldn't that mean if the original timeline is in effect then Barry shouldn't be the Flash yet.

Time travel rarely works that neatly. Even when major alterations are corrected, things don't necessarily go back to being exactly the same as they were before. There are no hard and fast rules.

[Triple J]

Eddie caused a paradoxical temporal loop. If Eddie kills himself then Eobard is never born but if Eobard is never born then there's no reason for Eddie to kill himself so Eobard is born then Eddie kills himself and Eobard is never born . . . ad infinitum. The timeline can't heal itself so there's a hole in time, which will take a Time Master to patch up. At the moment Central City is bridging the gap between these two temporal realities, so paradoxical events are co-existing, but this state of space-time can't hold.

That's one way of looking at it. But I prefer to think that time doesn't loop in on itself and it's more like a spring. One loop leads into the next. So one loop has 2024 Flash timeline loop which creates 2014 Flash timeline loop--both timeline loops coexist. Further timelines are created, but the other timelines are not destroyed.

Another way to think of it is like a tree with many branches. Each time something happens to create a new timeline that timeline branches off from the others, but the others continue. The Eobard Thawne who came back in time crossed over from one branch to the other--but the timeline that birthed him still exists, so he should still exist. However in the second timeline, through his own actions he's created a timeline where another Eobard Thawne will not exist. So by that logic, Eobard would still be alive yet if he wanted to return to his home time then he would have to cross over from the dead Eddie timeline to the live Eddie timeline.

Great theories; they are definitely exploring multiverse in S2. So, I am going with the 2nd theory: Eobard exists because he is from a timeline where Barry became the Flash years later (because of the particle accelerator created by the real Wells).

So, at the present, he was occupying a different timeline (since he manipulated it). He was an anomaly in both timelines - the original one, and the new one he created. So, his destruction didn't affect either one.

Of course, the black hole is another thing to worry about...let's see where that goes

[maczero]

Time travel rarely works that neatly. Even when major alterations are corrected, things don't necessarily go back to being exactly the same as they were before. There are no hard and fast rules.

Yeah but doesn't that invalidate the idea that erasing Thawne resets the timeline to its original state? To me, any differences from the original timeline that Thawne mentions indicates a different timeline. So Barry receiving his powers earlier than Thawne mentions sounds like a different timeline.

[tabo61]

Great tearjerker scene with Barry and his mom.

[kalorama]

Yeah but doesn't that invalidate the idea that erasing Thawne resets the timeline to its original state? To me, any differences from the original timeline that Thawne mentions indicates a different timeline. So Barry receiving his powers earlier than Thawne mentions sounds like a different timeline.

No. Time isn't like a computer; you can just hit "undo." Erasing Thawne (assuming that's what Eddie's suicide actually did) from the timeline might reset the base timeline back to what it was when Thawne's intervention created the divergence--i.e., coming back in time to kill Barry's mom--but how time proceeds ahead from that point is unlikely to follow the exact same path, because the very act of Thawne's rewriting the timeline creates indelible ripples, even after his existence (and thus his changes) have been removed. So yes, the timeline was reset to its original state starting on the day Thawne came back in time, but what happens from that point forward is anyone's guess.

Think of it this way:

(A) You're near the end of writing a 40 page paper and your computer crashes, and your last backup copy only goes to page 30. After you restore from backup, you're going to have to rewrite those last 10 pages. But even though you remember what you wrote, odds are what ends up on the paper won't be exactly the same as what was in the lost original, because even though you're starting from the same baseline and working on the same idea, you're not working under the same circumstances you were when you originally wrote it, mentally, emotionally, or temporally (e.g., you're pissed off that you're computer crashed, mad at yourself for not backing up more, panicking because you've lost time on the deadline) .

(B) You draw a line on a piece of paper and than erase it. If you press down too hard with the pencil and make too deep an impression, then some trace of the line will remain no matter how hard you erase. And the presence of that line can affect how you proceed with the rest of the drawing. Will you try to cover it up with shading or hatching? Will you ditch the whole thing and start over?

Point being that "erasing" a change doesn't automatically leave you with a pristine copy of how things were before the change was made. The act of making and then unmaking the change creates aftereffects that linger. So resetting/restoring the timeline and creating an altered timeline are not inherently mutually exclusive things.

[krazijoe]

Anyone else get headaches when discussing time travel?

[Frontier]

Yes, but that's about to be expected when you're dealing with time travel. I just live with what makes sense for me and leave it at that .

Though thinking about what we learned in the finale, it cemented Barry's biggest weakness as a hero...his inability to keep his secret identity. None of this would've happened if Thawne had never learned who The Flash really was. You want to know why heroes keep secret identities? So crazy and sociopathic Supervillains don't go back in time to kill them and mess up the timestream .

[sneakyflute]

That necklace around Eddie's neck suggests he'll become Cobalt Blue

[Miraclo__Pill]

The mural is of the Greek gods, done in representation of the Justice League.
640_The_Flash_Justice_League_Mural.jpg

Anyone else notice the odd looking medallion or necklace that appeared on Eddie as he was being pulled into the black hole?
eddie.jpg

I don't know. It looks like an engagement ring to me.

[Buried Alien]

Great tearjerker scene with Barry and his mom.

It was somewhat reminiscent of Anakin Skywalker's scene with his dying mother in STAR WARS: ATTACK OF THE CLONES, but unlike Anakin, Barry isn't turning to the Darkseid of the Speed Force.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Beantownbrown]

I loved the scene with Barry and his dad. He was the only one that said not to change the time line. To think about what he would lose if he did.

[The Whovian]

Just watched the finale. Not much to say that hasn't already except that I too loved the scene where Jay's helmet dropped in and RF said "That's my cue to leave". I would sooooooo love to see Jay show up in season 2.

[Miraclo__Pill]

Just watched the finale. Not much to say that hasn't already except that I too loved the scene where Jay's helmet dropped in and RF said "That's my cue to leave". I would sooooooo love to see Jay show up in season 2.

Thawne reaction was so funny. It was almost as if He recognized the helmet and didn't want to have nothing to do with Jay Garrick. Makes you wonder if they already met each other.

EDIT: Also, It was even more incredible that Flash of two worlds was issue 123 of Flash and the helmet appeared, confirming the existence of the Multiverse, in Flash Season 1 episode 23