The FLASH TV SERIES

[chico25]

her being dead

also Patty is on notice

dumb ass cops, shootin' first

It's not her fault and just highlights the problem with her being lied to by everyone. Joe has a partner that is trying to do her job with no knowledge of important facts. As far as she knew she was dealing with and admitted murderer who faked his death with no body ever found that had broken into a lab recently to steal some stuff. She told this fugitive to stop and put his hands up, instead he moved forward while holding a gun shaped object, things went wrong. If Joe doesn't trust her enough to tell her the weird stuff that's going on, even if he leaves out Barry's identity, he shouldn't have made her his partner.

[JaggedFel]

How is Joe getting all the blame? Barry is dating her and hasnt told her anything. Taser Wells. They dont know her well enough to tell her. She shouldnt be running around off the books and Star Labs should get some effing security with some alarms at minimum so people stop walking in unannounced.

[Kalen O.]

There's plenty of people to blame, we're just saying Patty's not one of them. She's a cop. She was doing her job. She wasn't breaking into STAR Labs and aimlessly poking around like an (ahem) vigilante, she was pursuing an admitted murderer who everyone believed to be dead and was attempting to arrest him. She only shot him when she perceived an actual threat, ie a murderer advancing on her with something metallic in his hand instead of stopping with his hands in the air as she'd ordered.

Probable cause is what's needed to do what Patty did here, and it's pretty black and white in regards to whether or not she was justified in thinking she had probable cause to pursue Wells.

[kalorama]

I'm not a big Patty fan, but even I can't fault her for this one. She was in the right to follow Wells (although she probably should have radioed for backup before confronting him).

Of course, if she had taken "no" for an answer when Joe told her he didn't want her on the "task force" and didn't want her involved with metahumans--instead of stubbornly bulldozing her way into being his partner--then she wouldn't have been in that position in the first place. But that's a different issue.

[JaggedFel]

Patty is trigger happy clearly. How is she not accountable for her actions where she shot wells. U no how many times I have heard a cop say I thought he had a gun? PLZ.

I dont see warrant in her hand to search Star Labs. Do you? Private Property. People are just jumping through hoops to justify a clear cut case of police overreach because Patty is a pretty white girl.

[kalorama]

So they gave Vandal Savage, Shadow Thief's origin, otherwise good episode.

Actually, they gave him Hath Set's origin.

[kalorama]

Patty is trigger happy clearly. How is she not accountable for her actions where she shot wells. U no how many times I have heard a cop say I thought he had a gun? PLZ.

I dont see warrant in her hand to search Star Labs. Do you? Private Property. People are just jumping through hoops to justify a clear cut case of police overreach because Patty is a pretty white girl.

He admitted to being Harrison Wells--the man who confessed to murder and was wanted in connection with a recent robbery--and advanced on her after being told to stop while holding a device that could have very easily been mistaken for a gun (do you think that design was a coincidence). Also, police don't generally require a warrant to enter a premises if they are in active pursuit of a suspect, which she was. Plus, as far as anyone outside of team Flash knows, the STAR labs facility is supposed to be shut down and abandoned.

[JaggedFel]

It was a bright room and clearly not a gun.

[kalorama]

After seeing what happened to Jay after he took Velocity 6, I'm thinking some additional theories on Zoom's origin and identity may be in order. Also, the fact that it works would seem to indicate that Jay still has some kind of connection to the speed force, which raises further questions about why his powers no longer work.

[Kalen O.]

Patty is trigger happy clearly. How is she not accountable for her actions where she shot wells. U no how many times I have heard a cop say I thought he had a gun? PLZ.

I dont see warrant in her hand to search Star Labs. Do you? Private Property. People are just jumping through hoops to justify a clear cut case of police overreach because Patty is a pretty white girl.

Again, you don't actually need a warrant if you have probable cause. Which she had, in abundance. She wasn't searching Star Labs, she was following an actual, acknowledged murderer. And she didn't just show up and start shooting, she called out, identified herself, gave a command to stop and put his hands in the air, and only fired when the supposed to be dead confessed murderer ignored her and advanced towards her with something shiny, metallic and gun shaped obscured in his hand. There are lots of instances where police on shows and real life aren't justified in firing. I just don't happen to think this is one of them.

And no, this isn't me jumping through hoops to clear the pretty white girl of police overreach, this is me saying the same things I said about Iris last season, because my whole motivation for responding is I'm tired of people blaming all of Barry's girlfriends for acting on the only information they have because everybody else is withholding information from them. It's the same thing. It's like people expect these female characters to be fine just sitting on their asses waiting for Barry to decide to trust them with his secrets before they're allowed to be relevant. No, no one's saying Barry has to or even should trust Patty yet. Just saying, I don't get how people consistently come down on characters like Patty and Iris for acting under their own agency and muddling through as best they can while cut off from the action everyone else is a part of, while allowances are made for all the mistakes Barry and his team make while actually having all the information.

I do get that police brutality and overreach are a sensitive issue right now, and I fully understand why. But in the context of the story we were presented with tonight? I can't fathom how fans who are quick to get past Barry's unlawful imprisonment of metahumans last season and his killing of villains this season can't get past a cop discharging her weapon in a face to face encounter with a confessed murderer. (Again, this isn't a case of she thought he might be a suspect or jumping the gun on shooting someone who was possibly dangerous based on vague suspicions. This was an encounter with someone who according to every reasonable expectation was the confessed killer he looked exactly like.)

[kalorama]

It was a bright room and clearly not a gun.

Actually, it clearly was a gun. It just wasn't a conventional ballistic firearm. But neither are Snart's cold gun or Rory's heat gun; that doesn't change the fact that they're still deadly weapons. And as a cop in a city where superhuman criminals are running rampant in the streets, and a member of a task force specifically mandated to deal with metahuman criminals, Patty would know that.

[Frontier]

They're definitely going to have their work cut out for them explaining to Patty everything that's been going on, which there's really no way around at this point, and Barry is probably going to have to come clean about being The Flash to her. I'm actually surprised he was able to keep it a secret from her for as long as he did considering just how casually people reveal secret identities at this point. Nice job Cisco .

So Kendra has her powers back, but she still doesn't have her memories of her past lives like Carter/Khufu does. I wonder how long into Legends before she gets it, and if getting, well, "intimate" with Carter might speed up the process of her emergence? It also seems like there might have been something that was preventing her from emerging as fast as Carter did, so I'm curious if that'll be followed up on. Unless it really was just necessary for her to just block everything out, but Carter also apparently got his memories back at the same time he got his powers so something seems different.

Crasper Crump is giving a Peter Stormare-level performance (which isn't necessarily a compliment or criticism on my part) as Savage, but this episode did a fairly decent job of establishing him as a dangerous threat. He's good enough at throwing knives that he can even hit Flash, and he can just pull out a fan blade out of nowhere! I kinda wish Savage didn't get the rod of Horus just so we could see him kick Flash and GA's butts with whatever weapon he could bring out of his coat .

Magnet Arrow. Classic .

I find it fitting that the fight between the heroes begins with Hawkman trading blows and quips with Green Arrow, though evidently it seems like Carter and Ollie are going to get along better in the DCTVU then they have in the comics.

I wonder if Velocity-6 is going to provide a means for someone else (Wally, Jesse) to become a Speedster? I also wonder if Jay is going to be right about it proving more harmful then good in the long-run, but at least it did bring back his speed for a time. And I also doubt Wells is really going to keep it from Barry. But it was nice to see Jay trying to save Harry, in spite of their differences, and Wells thanking him at the end.

Jay also made a good point about how no one really understands the Speed Force and what it can do. Thawne seemed to have a very good understanding of it, but he had years of experience and even he didn't know what would happen from using his time travel abilities.

So people can still walk into Star Labs without anyone knowing and ninjas/LoA members can still easily get into the Arrowcave. Superhero lair security isn't what it used to be...

I guess the writers just forgot about Malcolm being the first person in the series, and the entire universe, to say "Green Arrow," way before Oliver ever actually used it officially?

Nice to see Thea finally accept Speedy as her codename. Though the news media probably still calls her Red Arrow like they did Roy, so I guess she can be content on that front.

Barry and Oliver playing off each other, arguing, and supporting each other was fun to watch. The World's Finest of the DCTVU is fairly strong in its own right, and Flash and Green Arrow taking on Hawkman and Savage was exciting to watch.

Oliver finally finds out about his kid (who may or may not be Conner), which I imagine is probably going to factor into the second episode at least a little. Be interesting to see if he keeps it to himself, tells any of Team Arrow, or tries to get to know the boy. I'm honestly not really sure where I see Oliver going with this.

[kalorama]

So "Speedy" is now officially Thea's code name? Because in the season premiere she was trying to get people to call her "Arsenal." It seems a little foolish for her to use her actual childhood nickname as a code name, given that her brother has been repeatedly suspected of being the Arrow.

I love Thea. I'm really gonna miss her when she dies.

[Kensei]

Sorry to start out with a complaint but this is not the Hawkman and Hawkgirl I wanted to see. It's nice that the characters are getting tv exposure but they have a potential that isn't being met here. I saw it when I happened to catch part of the movie "Legion" on tv which dealt with angels, and the amazing wing effects in that film made me go "Wow, that's what Hawkman would look like on screen!" But now we have wings that completely disappear when not in use, and the actor playing Hawkman is a bit underwhelming to me. Carter in the comics is imposing, a body and a presence you do not want to get on the wrong side of. This guy seems like... I don't know, just some guy. I'm more accepting of the actress playing Kendra, but all in all I'd really like a little more loyalty to the comics here and I liked the version of Hawkman on "Smallville" much better. I hope I'm convinced to eventually change my mind.

As to the rest of the episode, I liked it fine and this Vandal Savage works just fine for me. How fascinating would it be if he and Damien Dhark somehow come to blows? I'm also very intrigued now by the suggestion that the eventual death might be the mother of Oliver's son. Oliver being left to raise Connor would certainly be a new twist for "Arrow."

I also thought it was funny that someone a little way back referred to Malcolm and the League making their little appearances as a new running gag. It makes a certain line from the past pop into my head- "NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!"

[90'sCartoonMan]

This episode felt oddly padded and rushed at the same time. I get Cisco spilled the beans and Barry didn't try to deny it, but why wasn't Oliver more secretive about his operations? They bring Curtis Holt along on a mission and take extra care not to use real names around him but a woman who needs protection gets to see the base, everyone's name, and Oliver and Felicity's home (and later they aren't shy around Carter either). That all went by quickly, and yet the party scene seemed a bit...long? I guess everyone had to catch up with each other. Harry and Caitlin's side story was fine, though. The episode didn't seem to have room for Iris or Laurel, though.

I love seeing Barry interacting with Oliver, and they're both in different places now. Oliver more relaxed and optimistic, Barry more cautious and uncertain. That doesn't stop them from being who they are, though, after watching Vixen, I wanted to see more of their banter.

Instead of having any battle between team arrow and the ghosts they should have just had barry rush in and take them all out. While team arrow was still in mid air

I'm kind of surprised they had Damien Darhk appear at all. Plus he almost killed Green Arrow. That's kind of major for a throw away mission.

Have Vandal Savage and Ra's al Ghul ever worked together in the comics? Merlyn and the League showing up in this episode had me wondering about that..

They were pretty chummy as members of the Light on the Young Justice cartoon.

After seeing what happened to Jay after he took Velocity 6, I'm thinking some additional theories on Zoom's origin and identity may be in order. Also, the fact that it works would seem to indicate that Jay still has some kind of connection to the speed force, which raises further questions about why his powers no longer work.

Yeah, that got me thinking. I love the amount of respect Jay seems to have to the Speed Force and connection to it. I wonder if the Speed Force itself encompasses all Earths (rather than there being a separate Speed Force per Earth)?

Crasper Crump is giving a Peter Stormare-level performance (which isn't necessarily a compliment or criticism on my part) as Savage, but this episode did a fairly decent job of establishing him as a dangerous threat. He's good enough at throwing knives that he can even hit Flash, and he can just pull out a fan blade out of nowhere! I kinda wish Savage didn't get the rod of Horus just so we could see him kick Flash and GA's butts with whatever weapon he could bring out of his coat .

Savage made a great impression (so he advised Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar, and...Harry Houdini?). Even if he's a little bit Hath-Set, I like the explanation for why he's more than human. His knife-throwing must be as fast as a bullet from a gun if Barry couldn't even catch all of them.

I wonder if Velocity-6 is going to provide a means for someone else (Wally, Jesse) to become a Speedster?

I'm betting Jesse. I was just waiting for either Caitlin or Harry to mention the equation 3X2(9YZ)4A.