The FLASH TV SERIES

[Osiris-Rex]

This. See also: Buffy the Vampire Slayer. An episode that makes perfect sense in universe, has big character moments for literally every main cast character, and still manages to make a relatively stylish television musical (complete with entirely original songs!).

If we get something half as well thought out, we're in for something fun.

Also Xena:Warrior Princess had a musical episode. Although ironically no magic was involved. Xena and Gabrielle just happened to visit a village were music was what the village did for a living. Even as recently as Agent Carter, there was a musical episode.

[Jim Kelly]

In the interest of maintaining a positive tone on this thread--I think these words perfectly sum up my opinion on the matter of musicals:

Dayman
Fighter of the Nightman
Champion of the Sun
You're a Master of Karate
And Friendship
For Everyone!

[Sain]

Despite last season leaving me with a bitter taste in my mouth, I was still always anxious to see how they were going to write themselves out of it. The premiere was standard Flash as we now know it, but something's that stood out to me were:

Wally as Kid Flash wasn't as grand as I thought it would be. Thinking about it now, it's probably because the one we're introduced to has been at it for awhile, hence why it felt like it was just another day at the office.

It was actually really nice to see see a nice compact cast of Iris Barry and Wally in the beginning. The simpler times are more memorable, or at least only because it took time to add more people in the first place. The vision of just them for awhile was really nice.

Welp, Barry stays fcking up. These time jumps are going to spiral, if they aren't already.

Geezus, lol let us settle in before Iris starts giving mid battle pep talks. Not only is it tired, corny and predictable, but this time around it was glaringly forced now more than ever.

Wow, It felt so good not to see Wells' character. It felt fresh and truly like a new life for everyone. I know he'll be back by next episodes credits, but man did it feel good while it lasted. I never liked how soon he came back in season two, so that could be why I feel such solace.

Lastly, I don't like for an actresses looks to be the first thing I comment on, but Barry's mom in this episode...bruh. She was always beautiful, but in this episode I could not stop staring at her. She had red hair when she was alive as opposed to pre-death, no? Red suits her. Seeing reverse and barry disappear only for her to actually die (again) was actually impressively messed up, and bummed me out. Which was in a good way from a writing perspective of course.

[AdamFTF]

I can tell this season is going to be tough for me because it's going to be entirely based on a premise that I've never liked: the death of Nora Allen. I first discovered the Barry Allen Flash through the Showcase Presents books and I know it's considered old-fashioned and not very relatable, but there was nothing wrong with his back story as it was back then. He didn't have a tragic backstory and he didn't need one. There was no dwelling on the past, just acting in the present. And it was pretty much everything I needed from a superhero when I discovered it.

But then Geoff Johns came along and suddenly Barry's one of a hundred other super-orphans (there is a point when something moves past "trope" and right into "cliche"). And then he writes Flashpoint which argues that "Nora Allen not only dies but HAS TO die." And now there's a season of the TV show based around it.

Sigh.

Anyway, it was nice seeing Wally as Flash/Kid Flash. Wasn't a huge fan of Rival. I think I'm getting a bit tired of these speedster villains. Speaking of speedster villains, if they're going to keep using the Reverse Flash, could we finally get some background on him? Barry hates Thawne. Thawne hates Barry. We know why Barry hates Thawne. He killed Barry's mother. But why would Thawne hate Barry enough to kill his mother? They just keep playing the time travel angle with him and acting like we'll find out someday, but they should just bite the bullet and do it. I've never been a big fan of Professor Zoom in the comics either, but he's one of those characters that is so important that writers will use him anyway. So, they should just go ahead and establish some backstory for the character.

[Frontier]

Anyway, it was nice seeing Wally as Flash/Kid Flash. Wasn't a huge fan of Rival. I think I'm getting a bit tired of these speedster villains. Speaking of speedster villains, if they're going to keep using the Reverse Flash, could we finally get some background on him? Barry hates Thawne. Thawne hates Barry. We know why Barry hates Thawne. He killed Barry's mother. But why would Thawne hate Barry enough to kill his mother? They just keep playing the time travel angle with him and acting like we'll find out someday, but they should just bite the bullet and do it. I've never been a big fan of Professor Zoom in the comics either, but he's one of those characters that is so important that writers will use him anyway. So, they should just go ahead and establish some backstory for the character.

We know why Thawne hates Barry. He explained it in his season 2 appearance "The Reverse-Flash returns"

He explained that he was The Flash's biggest fan and recreated the accident that gave him his powers, and then went back in time only to find out that he was fated to become his idols' Archenemy. This knowledge basically broke him and motivated him to become the reverse of everything The Flash stood for, and their subsequent and time-spanning rivalry only furthered the enmity.

It's pretty much the exact same motivation for Thawne from the comics.

[Jim Kelly]

I have a theory that likely won't pan out, but I think it's an interesting way to look at the timeline.

The Reverse Flash came from a time far in the future, where Barry's life story was much more like the pre-Crisis version--and he disappeared during a Crisis. Now suppose, instead of looking at that as the original timeline, we see that as the ultimate timeline. Which it is for Eobard Thawne. Despite all the interference with timelines--Thawne's future is the one that ultimately drives the whole story. Nothing can happen without all that he knows being true, therefore the ultimate timeline really is the pre-Crisis type and not all these intermediary timelines. Eventually, time is going to work itself out, so that there is a timeline where Nora lived and that ultimately results in Eobard Thawne becoming the Reverse-Flash.

The only reason we see it differently is because we're being forced to look at it from the perspective of this time-altered Barry Allen.

[AdamFTF]

We know why Thawne hates Barry. He explained it in his season 2 appearance "The Reverse-Flash returns"

He explained that he was The Flash's biggest fan and recreated the accident that gave him his powers, and then went back in time only to find out that he was fated to become his idols' Archenemy. This knowledge basically broke him and motivated him to become the reverse of everything The Flash stood for, and their subsequent and time-spanning rivalry only furthered the enmity.

It's pretty much the exact same motivation for Thawne from the comics.

Okay, so he still has a really stupid backstory. Got it. I mean, seriously, they literally made it a "self fulfilling prophecy". Geez.

Never liked that character. Never got why people like him so much. The Flash's best enemy is still the damn ape (with Captain Cold maybe as runner-up).

[Jim Kelly]

To be fair to John Broome and Carmine Infantino, a lot of the post-Crisis Professor Zoom back story isn't what they created.

Originally, in the 25th century, Eobard Thawne amplified the residual energies in an old Flash costume (but now reversed) to lend himself speed powers. After he was soon defeated by a time-travelling Flash, the Reverse-Flash sought to get his revenge on Barry Allen. Knowing the full history of the Scarlet Speedster (thanks in part to the Flash Museum in 25th century Central City), Zoom started to travel back in time to the 20th century to use his fore-knowledge against Barry. Things escalated from there until Thawne killed Iris West Allen--thus ensuring his place as Barry's number one arch foe. And then, of course, when the widowed Barry Allen was about to marry Fiona Webb, Zoom was ready to kill her as well, which led to Barry dealing the death-blow to the Reverse Flash.

[GreenLanternRanger]

So basically by going back in time Barry...

-Got a new partner that hates him
- Ruined Joe & Iris's relationship
- Killed Cisco's brother
- Genderbent Diggle's kid from a girl to a boy.

Barry.... you done screwed up.

[tabo61]

Poor Caitlin.

[The Cool Thatguy]

So basically by going back in time Barry...

-Got a new partner that hates him
- Ruined Joe & Iris's relationship
- Killed Cisco's brother
- Genderbent Diggle's kid from a girl to a boy.

Barry.... you done screwed up.

Seriously. That's what I hate about Flashpoint, making Barry, the hero, responsible for the deaths that happen in the new reality (like The Kents).

[AndrewBatman82]

Poor Caitlin.

she going to be a killer supervillain if you get my drift

[Triple J]

I wonder if time gives Thawne a special status or something.

I mean, even in the "prime" timeline (the one we are most familiar with) - Thawne killed Barry's mom, sped up the process of Barry becoming Flash...time seemingly didn't "punish" Thawne for his actions. But, every time Barry tries to do something, it blows up in his face.

[Sain]

I don't think there has ever been a story where I liked the lead character keeping a secret from people, where the secret is actually something that should be understandable to the person/people it is being told too...this continues my dislike. In all fairness I would have been way more annoyed if he didn't tell at least someone early, in this case being felicity.

Yup, this episode solidified my fear of not wanting to see another speedster; I knew I would care less about their little streak battle across town and indeed I felt nothing for the scene. I'm not too sure how Rival, is Rival in this timeline just by memories from another timeline bleeding into his. No one else is having memory bleed, no?

I dig the idea of Snow being "Killer" in this timeline. I'm ok if she doesn't go evil. But once again, that is a secret that has no need to be kept secret given the people she is surrounded by and how in the know, accepting, and helpful they are. I hope they don't drag this secret for too long.

Cisco was already unnaturally gloomy whenever his powers were involved, now he has a close death in the family. Why couldn't he just be the one happy guy with powers? I know he'll eventually go back to normal, but just like the themes the show is dealing with he'll never really be "normal" now with this time altering.

Malfoy's character is doing just fine so far, no complaints. His perception of Barry is clearly unfounded, but it will be all the sweeter when he finds out he was wrong. Also, he's going to find out Barry is the Flash isn't he..

[Jim Kelly]

I suppose we'll never know what the original timeline was like that Thawne changed. Maybe there were a lot of other things, besides the Allen, West and Wellls family timelines that were altered.

It was a gas to see DAWSON'S CREEK--the only reason I started watching that show was because John Wesley Shipp played the dad. But his character on that show met a similar fate as Barry's dad. The guy could never catch a break.