The FLASH TV SERIES

[Huntsman Spider]

Cliff notes of things as I finally got to check the episode…

Now as I was watching it I was in the camp of let him die. But I can also see Joe’s POV and to have known and covered police in my journalism years, they may not like everyone or agree with everyone, they are charged with saving everyone.
But by the same token, it’s f’n THAWNE.

I doubt they do, but I need some kind of revisiting this and the fact that WHEN, not IF, he returns, whatever damage and death he causes, it is on the heads of ALL of Team Flash. They were looking for the short term feels and not thinking long term. But of course, that brings the issues of punishing someone for something they MIGHT do in the future. But again, this is f’n Thawne.

Looking at Armageddon as a whole, I think it could have worked as a four parter. Still have the wrap up with Despero and the Golden Boot Rider Kick, BUT this save Thawne thing happens in another episode later in the season. Make it the 19th or 20th episode as a less action heavy one before you launch into the two-part finale. Because the way they did it, this should have been the end of Thawne, so make it toward the end of the series. But if this is truly the end of Thawne then I’d be fine with it.

"Golden Boot Rider Kick," huh? I was thinking the same thing as I saw that moment in the episode. Would be cool if something similar happened with Kamen Rider Kabuto or even Kamen Rider Faiz in Accel Mode. That said, Barry saving Thawne in spite of Thawne's admission that he would continue hating Barry and seeking out new ways to hurt him and the people he cared about most . . . reminded me of Spider-Man (Peter Parker) literally taking a bullet to stop J. Jonah Jameson from killing a mentally discombobulated Norman Osborn in the finale of Go Down Swinging. I understand Joe's reasoning but given how Thawne and Osborn are almost on par with each other for psychotic, obsessive hatred of their respective heroic nemeses, this will definitely come back to bite Barry and company in the end.

[Frontier]

"Golden Boot Rider Kick," huh? I was thinking the same thing as I saw that moment in the episode. Would be cool if something similar happened with Kamen Rider Kabuto or even Kamen Rider Faiz in Accel Mode. That said, Barry saving Thawne in spite of Thawne's admission that he would continue hating Barry and seeking out new ways to hurt him and the people he cared about most . . . reminded me of Spider-Man (Peter Parker) literally taking a bullet to stop J. Jonah Jameson from killing a mentally discombobulated Norman Osborn in the finale of Go Down Swinging. I understand Joe's reasoning but given how Thawne and Osborn are almost on par with each other for psychotic, obsessive hatred of their respective heroic nemeses, this will definitely come back to bite Barry and company in the end.

Although I think there's a difference between stopping an execution and letting nature take its course.

[Huntsman Spider]

Although I think there's a difference between stopping an execution and letting nature take its course.

Fair enough, but then there's the whole issue of whether just allowing someone to die, even someone as despicable and hateful as Thawne who's been responsible for so much suffering and death, is morally much or any better than outright killing them.

[j9ac9k]

Fair enough, but then there's the whole issue of whether just allowing someone to die, even someone as despicable and hateful as Thawne who's been responsible for so much suffering and death, is morally much or any better than outright killing them.

I agree, and that's what made it a real quandary - there wouldn't be the same hand-wringing if the question were whether or not to commit murder. And then especially when you already know what to do to save them. Then you're withholding a life-saving remedy. (luckily for them, it necessitated taking away his speed)

[Nate Grey]

I think Letscher's said on a few occasions that they've never reached out to him to come back. I think it's always just been more for convenience and preference that they use Tom.

So we keep seeing him cause he's best buds with the higher ups? I like Ed too but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and it would be balanced out with Matt taking over sometimes, but whatever.

[GSman]

I think Letscher's said on a few occasions that they've never reached out to him to come back. I think it's always just been more for convenience and preference that they use Tom.

In that case, Harrison Wells should have been a completely fabricated life that Thawne created for himself and there never should have been this faceswapping fiasco to begin with. I really love Tom, he's a huge part of what made season 1 absolutely amazing and one of best seasons of a superhero show ever IMO. But there definitely is too much of a good thing here. It's like Letscher is non existent which is a shame, I really enjoyed his few appearances in Flash and his tenure in Legends, I was all for seeing the genesis of Thawne/Barry's rivalry in season 2, and was hoping to see that develop especially from Barry's perspective, but the Thawne we regularly get now is basically a Thawne who's had all his experience and fights with the Flash while the era appropriate one got flung into the future to never be seen again.

[Captain Craig]

So when Chuck opened the case, who else was thinking Marsellus Wallace?

*Raises Hand*

This was by far the weakest of the crossovers. For me that is because we didn't really get everyone together. We got a few together here or Flash with just BL or GA. The amount of time we gave to standing around talking to Despero only to finally fight him as he reveals his own nefarious intent to just, well literally, drop kick him to the "curb". By curb I mean it is a little unclear if he died, faded to somewhere else or transported himself.

If this episode was meant to rebuild interest in a Mia Queen GA show I'm not sure having her possessed for two segments was a good use of time. I don't hate the character as some online passionately do but the search for William is an interesting enough hook to start a show.

Do you think Chester and Alegra made plans for some D&D after the party at some point?

Is Nora Darkh going to stick around now?

Points for the photo hook there at the end. The Tornado Twins are Wally's kids rights? The more I see Bart & Nora/XS interact the more I feel they are a bit "tornadic" together.

So no CW shows till January 11 now, right? Superman & Lois S2 with the Naomi premier?

[KabutoRyder]

If this episode was meant to rebuild interest in a Mia Queen GA show I'm not sure having her possessed for two segments was a good use of time. I don't hate the character as some online passionately do but the search for William is an interesting enough hook to start a show.


So no CW shows till January 11 now, right? Superman & Lois S2 with the Naomi premier?

I don't think so on Mia. It was just some fan service to give some sense of closure for folks who were behind the spinoff. Myself, while I love me some Juliana Harkavy, loooooooooove her (despite the Team Arrow Civil War Season nonsense) I felt no need to see a spinoff. We had near a decade of Green Arrow, we did not need anymore whatsoever. And the spinoff was dead months ago, so I doubt there was any desire to rekindle interest in it.

And yeah, we are into the territory of those fun hiatuses for our favorite shows across the networks. Like I get we have to do it, but man is it annoying as hell.

[Frontier]

I liked the Canary Cry arrow.

Poor William though .

[protege]

In that case, Harrison Wells should have been a completely fabricated life that Thawne created for himself and there never should have been this faceswapping fiasco to begin with. I really love Tom, he's a huge part of what made season 1 absolutely amazing and one of best seasons of a superhero show ever IMO. But there definitely is too much of a good thing here. It's like Letscher is non existent which is a shame, I really enjoyed his few appearances in Flash and his tenure in Legends, I was all for seeing the genesis of Thawne/Barry's rivalry in season 2, and was hoping to see that develop especially from Barry's perspective, but the Thawne we regularly get now is basically a Thawne who's had all his experience and fights with the Flash while the era appropriate one got flung into the future to never be seen again.

I definitely preferred matt l: I never warmed up to tom cavanaugh, and my interest kept diminishing with each new iteration of wells.

[AnakinFlair]

I don't think so on Mia. It was just some fan service to give some sense of closure for folks who were behind the spinoff. Myself, while I love me some Juliana Harkavy, loooooooooove her (despite the Team Arrow Civil War Season nonsense) I felt no need to see a spinoff. We had near a decade of Green Arrow, we did not need anymore whatsoever. And the spinoff was dead months ago, so I doubt there was any desire to rekindle interest in it.

What closure? William is still missing, and Mia is still looking.

I am happy they came back to this, and I'd like to think this is the start of them finally closing the book on Green Arrow. I'd expect Mia to come back on The Flash, or maybe on Legends next season, to finally find William and bring that story to a close.

[KabutoRyder]

What closure? William is still missing, and Mia is still looking.

I am happy they came back to this, and I'd like to think this is the start of them finally closing the book on Green Arrow. I'd expect Mia to come back on The Flash, or maybe on Legends next season, to finally find William and bring that story to a close.

The book was closed on Green Arrow when the series ended.

Mia is out there still looking for her brother. That's her purpose going forth. We can all imagine any numbers of tales that take place during the search. It may not be satisfactory for you and give you a victory with her finding William, but you know what she is up to. To me that's enough closure.

She doesn't need to take up screen time on any other show.

[Captain Craig]

.... I'd expect Mia to come back on The Flash, or maybe on Legends next season, to finally find William and bring that story to a close.

I could go for this. It might actually make revitalize my interest in Legends. Mia finding William is way better as a possibility than anything the last two seasons. She is by far a better roster slot than SPOONER!!

[Frontier]

The book was closed on Green Arrow when the series ended.

Mia is out there still looking for her brother. That's her purpose going forth. We can all imagine any numbers of tales that take place during the search. It may not be satisfactory for you and give you a victory with her finding William, but you know what she is up to. To me that's enough closure.

She doesn't need to take up screen time on any other show.

It feels like some kind of bad karma for the criticism of child!William...

[90'sCartoonMan]

So that's how they planned a fifth and final episode. I can't say this felt like a bigger episode than the last one, but I appreciated that Flash had to fight both Thawne and Despero. Quite the moral issue that was presented. It made sense that Joe would advocate to save Thawne, but it feels more like he did it to save the souls of his kids than to actually save Thawne.

I'm a little disappointed they didn't conclude Mia's looking for William story, but I'm also hoping that means they plan on doing a conclusion later.

I wonder if Chester P Point will be the next crossover? Has a ring to it.

Flash finally figured out that he is fast and can use that in a fight. I actually liked this arc compared to recent seasons. The fewer episodes helped a lot.

Definitely agree. The story was tighter and it didn't feel slow or padded to me, like previous arcs have felt.

So when Chuck opened the case, who else was thinking Marsellus Wallace? And with the picture at the end, I couldn't help but think of The Shining.

Yes to both. I have to wonder, though, has Bart visited them again since we last saw him? Iris said that Nora and Bart pop in all the time, and that's true for Nora, but what about Bart?

I guess we now have the exact reason Thawne grew to hate Barry. He wanted to be like The Flash, he wanted to be a hero, and when he thought he was going to get to save a bunch of people...Barry just casually time-traveled and did it in the middle of another case, stealing his hero debut. And Thawne hated him ever since.

I'm wondering if they're saving this plot for the series finale and/or the last Thawne episode.

The Supergirl cast isn't the only cast that can dress up and party. Although I only just realized now that, other than Joe, there are only two guys on Team Flash right now.

Are we counting Cecile as part of Team Flash? I feel like Cecile should be more on Joe's level, although they typically tend to write her as younger than him and part of the team. She and Iris never get that mother/daughter dynamic.

How many times is Nora Darhk going have to see her dad die, let alone die for her sake? At least Darhk got to go out getting the Best Dad seal of approval from the other Arrowverse Best Dad, Joe. Were Nora and Darhk in purgatory/limbo before switching places?

That seemed needlessly cruel. Like, I appreciated it from Darhk's perspective, but man, don't bring Nora back just to punch her in the gut like that.

In that case, Harrison Wells should have been a completely fabricated life that Thawne created for himself and there never should have been this faceswapping fiasco to begin with. I really love Tom, he's a huge part of what made season 1 absolutely amazing and one of best seasons of a superhero show ever IMO. But there definitely is too much of a good thing here. It's like Letscher is non existent which is a shame, I really enjoyed his few appearances in Flash and his tenure in Legends, I was all for seeing the genesis of Thawne/Barry's rivalry in season 2, and was hoping to see that develop especially from Barry's perspective, but the Thawne we regularly get now is basically a Thawne who's had all his experience and fights with the Flash while the era appropriate one got flung into the future to never be seen again.

I guess, aside from Tess naming STAR Labs, we wouldn't miss much if Harrison Wells was someone Thawne made up when he first got trapped in the past. Although, finding the real body of Harrison Wells helped Joe and Cisco uncover Thawne, and then we wouldn't get those other versions of Wells in future seasons.

Points for the photo hook there at the end. The Tornado Twins are Wally's kids rights? The more I see Bart & Nora/XS interact the more I feel they are a bit "tornadic" together.

The original Tornado Twins were Barry and Iris' kids, Don and Dawn Allen. Don is Bart's father and Dawn is Jenni's mother. I know Wally and Linda had Jai and Irey, but I'm not sure if they ever went by the name "Tornado Twins".

I could go for this. It might actually make revitalize my interest in Legends. Mia finding William is way better as a possibility than anything the last two seasons. She is by far a better roster slot than SPOONER!!

I like Mia and would welcome more of her. I probably like her more than half the Legends cast. Maybe concluding her story on Legends would let them reunite Caity Lotz with Katie Cassidy.