The FLASH TV SERIES

[kingaliencracker]

I am not jaded at all. This is just garbage writing. Barry is a hero yeah, but he is also a damn fool alot of the time who never listens to anyone once his mind is made up no matter the risk. This is a 3rd or 4th time people smarter than Barry have told him "this is a really bad idea and we need a new plan" but asshat Barry jsut says screw you all I am doing what I want no matter the risks. It is like everything Barry should have learned after his obsession with saving his mother caused Ronnies death and opened the breaches in the first place has been totally forgotten ever since they went to Earth 2. When they were on Earth 2 to me is when Barry went into full on "head up his ass" mode and he became as obsessed with Zoom as he was with his mother

To me the thing that should have happened was Joe should have went off on Barry after Wally got taken about how he caused this with his blind obsession with Zoom, and he is acting just as stupid as he did when he went back to save his mom and other people keep getting hurt because he doesn't stop and think about his actions.

The show pretty much allows everyone to enable Barry's bad decisions. The closest they have right now is E2 Wells, but even then he pretty much gets made out to be the bad guy when he chooses not to help Barry in his stupid decisions.

Zolomon was dying. All Barry had to do was wait for him to die. Instead he makes Zolomon the most powerful person on Earth 1 and Earth 2.

It really was terrible writing.

[Sighphi]

First, E2 Wells apparently knows everything about Hunter Zolomon because serial killers were a rarity on Earth-2. Yet no one could apparently figure out that Jay Garrick was Zolomon with a haircut.

Pssst. Putting on glasses makes people not recognize you.
This is a thing in comics and comic book shows.

I am not jaded at all. This is just garbage writing. Barry is a hero yeah, but he is also a damn fool alot of the time who never listens to anyone once his mind is made up no matter the risk. This is a 3rd or 4th time people smarter than Barry have told him "this is a really bad idea and we need a new plan" but asshat Barry jsut says screw you all I am doing what I want no matter the risks. It is like everything Barry should have learned after his obsession with saving his mother caused Ronnies death and opened the breaches in the first place has been totally forgotten ever since they went to Earth 2. When they were on Earth 2 to me is when Barry went into full on "head up his ass" mode and he became as obsessed with Zoom as he was with his mother

So he should've listened to what other said and not do anything?

Cause that's what everyone was saying in this episode. The super hero Flash should've just let Zoom be terrorizing that other Earth?

I dont think you want a tv show if you dont want the hero to push and act like a hero.
Or you want a hero show where the hero is super perfect and never makes mistakes?

To me the thing that should have happened was Joe should have went off on Barry after Wally got taken about how he caused this with his blind obsession with Zoom, and he is acting just as stupid as he did when he went back to save his mom and other people keep getting hurt because he doesn't stop and think about his actions.

So a hero now wanting to do good is called a "blind obsession."

Zolomon was dying. All Barry had to do was wait for him to die. Instead he makes Zolomon the most powerful person on Earth 1 and Earth 2.

It really was terrible writing.

You think Zoom wasnt thinking of ways to solve this problem?

I didnt really like the episode either but it's very weird that the thing some of your people are focusing on is Flash's go-for-it attitude. You folks want THE FREAKING FLASH to just chill and wait stuff out. That's just weird.

[kingaliencracker]

Pssst. Putting on glasses makes people not recognize you.
This is a thing in comics and comic book shows.

It's terrible, deus-ex-machina writing. They wanted a way to explain Zolomon's origin so they chose the easiest path possible.

So he should've listened to what other said and not do anything?

He didn't have to do anything. Zolomon was dying.

Cause that's what everyone was saying in this episode. The super hero Flash should've just let Zoom be terrorizing that other Earth?

I dont think you want a tv show if you dont want the hero to push and act like a hero.
Or you want a hero show where the hero is super perfect and never makes mistakes?

Again, Zolomon was dying. And Barry makes a lot of mistakes on the show, and a lot of the same mistakes to boot.

You think Zoom wasnt thinking of ways to solve this problem?

He didn't have any way to solve his problem. There were no more speedsters on his Earth. He was trapped. He was dying. His only salvation - Wells - was on another Earth to which he didn't have access.

As I said. everything that Zoom does now is all on Barry, which makes Barry the de facto villain of the Zoom arc now.

[Zero Hunter]

So a hero now wanting to do good is called a "blind obsession."

In Barry's case yes it does. He acts without thinking and gets people killed. He got Ronnie killed. He got Earth 2 Joe killed. He got Wally kidnapped. His actions lead to bad things because he is so obsessed with doing what he thinks is best that he never thinks of the what could happen and rushes in without a well thought out plan. Anyone that Zoom now kills on Earth 1 is completely the fault of Barry not taking the time to think of a better way to stop or contain Zoom. Even when he caught Zoom instead of doing the smart thing and making sure he was contained he starting making a speech to him about he could be a better person. Barry is an idiot and needs to be called out on it by Joe, Cisco, Catelyn, and Wells because him acting without thinking things through is getting more and more people hurt and killed.

[JBladeus]

Like one of the earlier posters, I also feel that Zolomon has most likely been poisoned.

By the way, didn't Jay earlier claim that he too was a scientist/physicist on E-2? How did a serial killer with no background in science pass himself off as one in front of actual science people like Wells, Cisco and Caitlyn?

[Frontier]

Barry doesn't have any timeframe for how long Zolomon has before he succumbs to his condition, and no way of knowing what's going on in Earth-2. What he does know is that Zoom is holding Central City in the grip of fear and there's no one who can do anything about it, not to mention the man in the iron mask is still his prisoner. Barry's not going to leave a city in danger like that for however long it takes Zolomon to finally die, which he has no way of knowing.

And as per Greg Berlanti's twitter:

It looks like we're going to be getting the real Jay Garrick.

[Godspeed]

Why do people say Candace is half Asian.

She says she is not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPHNXybdpdM

3:55

Her mother is Latina or mixed black and white. Look at the nose and the hair, she is squinting in the sun.

https://www.instagram.com/p/n3bMz_Rb3W/

[byrd156]

So Jay Garrick was never real?

I really hope he's the man in the mask.

[Ace Venom]

Barry was overconfident to the point of stupidity, which is why he went on his monologue after capturing Zoom. Barry could have easily taken Zoom to the pipeline and contained him. The problem would have been solved. Harrison Wells could have found his daughter and gone back to Earth 2. They could have even found out who the man in the iron mask was. Barry has had an incredible run of good luck this season and that came crashing down here. It doesn't make Barry the villain. It was just a poor tactical judgment. Barry will reclaim his speed now and the clock will start ticking down on Hunter again.

Speaking of that, I refuse to call Hunter Jay. My hope is that Jay is the one in the Iron Mask and we've been dealing with Earth 3 all along.

[Frontier]

I really hope he's the man in the mask.

Yeah. It's seeming likely that Zolomon stole the identity from the real Jay and has been keeping him confined in that glass and iron mask as Hunter masqueraded as The Flash. One way or another, it sounds like we're getting the real Jay Garrick eventually.

And, at this point, Barry is going to need another Speedster to help him if he wants any chance of beating Zoom.

Barry was overconfident to the point of stupidity, which is why he went on his monologue after capturing Zoom. Barry could have easily taken Zoom to the pipeline and contained him. The problem would have been solved. Harrison Wells could have found his daughter and gone back to Earth 2. They could have even found out who the man in the iron mask was. Barry has had an incredible run of good luck this season and that came crashing down here. It doesn't make Barry the villain. It was just a poor tactical judgment. Barry will reclaim his speed now and the clock will start ticking down on Hunter again

I'd say Barry's real overconfidence issue was in not thinking that Zoom would be able to find a way out of the anti-Speedster trap, which he hadn't been able to do.

[dan12456]

Barry doesn't have any timeframe for how long Zolomon has before he succumbs to his condition, and no way of knowing what's going on in Earth-2. What he does know is that Zoom is holding Central City in the grip of fear and there's no one who can do anything about it, not to mention the man in the iron mask is still his prisoner. Barry's not going to leave a city in danger like that for however long it takes Zolomon to finally die, which he has no way of knowing.

And as per Greg Berlanti's twitter:

It looks like we're going to be getting the real Jay Garrick.

It's unfortunate they had to spoil that reveal to deal with Mr. Waid's temper tantrum.

[Captain Smith]

I thought we had established by now that guns are useless against Zoom? He can just catch whatever they shoot at him. Barry was only able to shoot him with that anti-Speedster gun because he kept distracting Zolomon with memories of his past.

It was mentioned that these were energy weapons. None of the speedsters here are FTL. They might perceive and beat the trigger pull though.

[Ace Venom]

I'd say Barry's real overconfidence issue was in not thinking that Zoom would be able to find a way out of the anti-Speedster trap, which he hadn't been able to do.

Well that played a big part of it for sure. The pipeline really was the only sure bet to hold Zoom, but even now it's looking more and more like Zoom can overcome just about anything. He's also become a major nightmare with all that extra Speed Force.

[kalorama]

And man, a serial killer motivated by his dad's murder-suicide? THE FLASH is actually a hell of a lot darker than ARROW when you think about it.

They never said his father killed himself, did they? As I recall, there was only one gunshot, and when little Jay was being handed over to social services, the cop said "His mother killed his father." he didn't say anything about his father killing himself. Neither did Wells.

[kalorama]

And as per Greg Berlanti's twitter:

It looks like we're going to be getting the real Jay Garrick.

Which was the other reason for my thinking Iron Mask might be the real Jay Garrick/Flash, because I couldn't imagine the producers settling the whole story with the name Jay Garrick's only association being that of an inter-dimensional serial killer. Some kind of redemption was almost a given, and another, "good" version of Jay is the only one that would work, since Zolomon is beyond redemption.

It's unfortunate they had to spoil that reveal to deal with Mr. Waid's temper tantrum.

They didn't have to. Berlanti wasn't obligated to rub salve on Waid's hurt feelings. Why should anyone care whether Mark Waid likes the show? Because he wrote the comic book 15 years ago? Please. He's entitled to his opinions, but that's all they are. No more or less important than anyone else's.