The FLASH TV SERIES

[Nate Grey]

I think the scene of Team Future Flash reuniting shows the glaring female problem with this show. The fact that they turned Caitlin into an evil schizophrenic with really lame/underdeveloped reasoning, they have a dying Iris, and no other main females just illuminates that something needs to change next season. Now, whether or not THEY have finally pieced it together is....probably less than hopeful, seeing as we're in season three.

I get it, they don't want to introduce a brand new character. But what about Gypsy, or Jesse, or freaking Golden Glider, someone. Was Jesse even mentioned at all here? I mean all of the CW shows have issues with their women to one degree or another. But this show is by far the worst offender in this regard imo.

Well perhaps to offset this they're introducing Tracy Brand next episode. Apparently she will be either recurring/regular next season, I imagine to fill the female scientist void left by Caitlin now being Killer Frost.

[RyDub]

Okay so today after last nights ep have been doing a little bit of research and reading things like some of savitars own words, and even what other people have said. We are told that Savitar is the first person every given power through the speed force, the first speedster. Now I know most people think "That means he is barry" but Earth 3's flash, Jay Garrick seems to know a hell of a lot more about the speedforce and seems like he is decades more advanced then Barry in terms of the speed force which make me think that he is possibly the one who is Savitar. After all techincally its because of Barry the Jay is trapped in the speedforce.

I really don't know though, its liek every time I think it could be some one I think of a million reasons why it couldn't be them. this just sucks it needs to be next tuesday already

[The Darknight Detective]

Okay so today after last nights ep have been doing a little bit of research and reading things like some of savitars own words, and even what other people have said. We are told that Savitar is the first person every given power through the speed force, the first speedster. Now I know most people think "That means he is barry" but Earth 3's flash, Jay Garrick seems to know a hell of a lot more about the speedforce and seems like he is decades more advanced then Barry in terms of the speed force which make me think that he is possibly the one who is Savitar. After all techincally its because of Barry the Jay is trapped in the speedforce.

I really don't know though, its liek every time I think it could be some one I think of a million reasons why it couldn't be them. this just sucks it needs to be next tuesday already

Yeah, I'm putting Jay at the top of the list now. Caitlyn's reaction makes a lot of sense regarding him, too.

[Punisher007]

Well perhaps to offset this they're introducing Tracy Brand next episode. Apparently she will be either recurring/regular next season, I imagine to fill the female scientist void left by Caitlin now being Killer Frost.

I mean they could mollify this somewhat if Jesse was still around. She's likeable, and she got powers that didn't drive her insane. I mean the lack of explanation would still be lame (IDK why they don't just go with Caitlin's comic book explanation. It makes far more sense, and she remains somewhat sympathetic), but at least it'd be better. But they had her leave for no good reason.

And the thing is, neither the Iris plot nor the Caitlin one are automatically bad on their own. They could maybe be compelling. It's when they're the two most prominent females on the show, and they're BOTH being used as essentially damsels that the guys have to run around trying to save, or to motivate the men, that it's gets problematic. Especially since the other female characters with agency (Patty, Gypsy, Golden Glider, Jesse, Tina McGee, etc), are either gone (Patty), haven't shown up in a long time (Tina, GG), or get written in an out of the show at random seemingly (Gypsy, Jesse).

Basically all of this stuff put together bothers me.

[danteipp]

My best guess is still that Savitar is the Barry/Flash who would have existed if the timeline had progressed normally, without any of the interference from Barry, Thawne, Zoom, etc.

He essentially had his entire life and timeline wiped away. If things had progressed normally, without outside interference, I believe he would have been the first speedster years in the future, that having been the original point where the speed force was created organically.

Instead Thawne went back to the past, killed Barry's mother, jump started the process early, created a different timeline and the "normal" course of history was forever changed.

That Barry/Flash lost his entire life. His mother was killed in front of him as well, he never married Iris, etc. He might have been willing to accept the sacrifice until he learned Barry created Flashpoint. Maybe that made him angry/insane since to him new Barry still had Iris, Joe, his frends and team. All of which new Barry took for granted.

Now he has returned from the speed force and is angry and going to take it out on Barry and even Team Flash.

That is my best guess based upon what we know. That original Barry has the power, experience, fits the narrative and wasn't raised by Joe but his two natural parents who have been killed since he became the Flash. One by Thawne and the other by Zolomon. That might be enough to drive anyone crazy as a "man out of time/who had his life stolen from him".

And, if he isn't trapped and stopped, perhaps he was going to try to return his original timeline. By doing so, Ronnie Raymond isn't killed and Killer Frost could get him back. Although presumably she would have to hope he shares the views of Deathstorm, not Firestorm. Or she would have to hide her evil side from Ronnie if he was good. But I guess Savitar could promise to find her a Deathstorm Ronnie somehow.

[Nate Grey]

I mean they could mollify this somewhat if Jesse was still around. She's likeable, and she got powers that didn't drive her insane. I mean the lack of explanation would still be lame (IDK why they don't just go with Caitlin's comic book explanation. It makes far more sense, and she remains somewhat sympathetic), but at least it'd be better. But they had her leave for no good reason.

And the thing is, neither the Iris plot nor the Caitlin one are automatically bad on their own. They could maybe be compelling. It's when they're the two most prominent females on the show, and they're BOTH being used as essentially damsels that the guys have to run around trying to save, or to motivate the men, that it's gets problematic. Especially since the other female characters with agency (Patty, Gypsy, Golden Glider, Jesse, Tina McGee, etc), are either gone (Patty), haven't shown up in a long time (Tina, GG), or get written in an out of the show at random seemingly (Gypsy, Jesse).

Basically all of this stuff put together bothers me.

I don't disagree. Its like the He-Man Woman Hater's Club almost. lol

Well, let's look at the ones you mentioned. Some of it might come down to scheduling. GG's actress is typically busy, as is Gypsy's, plus Gypsy's power is too similar to Cisco's. It would be like a sidekick having a sidekick (even though yes she's better at her powers than Cisco's). Speaking of which, that might be why Jesse left (not the in-story reason): guest appearances are one thing, but on a regular basis three's a crowd in regards to speedsters unless the third is the villain. I always wondered if that's why on Arrow essentially three archers (Arrow himself, Speedy and Arsenal) got whittled down to two (Arrow and Speedy) then finally just one (Arrow himself), but I digress...Patty's whole purpose seemed tied to first finding out who the Flash was then being the third point in the Barry/Iris/Patty love triangle. Unless they repurposed her somewhat her role on the show is over. Tina McGee, maybe the actress doesn't want to do a full time or even part time acting gig anymore. Caitlin is still there, just no longer a scientist (for now) or rather a scientist working for Team Flash, so all this points to...create a new character to fill the void, ie Tracy Brand.

With all that said, I'm all for a female superhero who is a part of the team who doesn't have speed powers. The only one missed was Linda Park, she could somehow become Dr. Light like her Earth 2 counterpart, minus the thievery of course. Zatanna would be cool, too.

[Jim Kelly]

Some of you guys seem to have decided that Danielle Panabaker will not be returning as a series regular in season 4. I don't know when her contract comes up, but if Caitlin remains Killer Frost, then I don't see how the villainess could be featured in every season 4 episode, unless she's the main antagonist for the whole season. Whereas, as part of Team Flash, Dr. Snow has an ongoing purpose.

It would be a loss to THE FLASH if Danielle Panabaker wasn't there anymore, so I'm going to guess that the Killer Frost sub-plot will be resolved. Perhaps not fully, but at least enough to redeem Caitlin for the time being, so she returns to the team. Most likely, Julian will sacrifice himself to save Caitlin's humanity and subdue Killer Frost.

Personally, I'd like Shantel Vansanten to return as a series regular--with Patty Spivot now being a full CSI and taking Julian's place at CCPD. Also, they could retroboot Linda Park, to give Wally a potential love interest (to compete with Jesse for his affections).

[Nate Grey]

Some of you guys seem to have decided that Danielle Panabaker will not be returning as a series regular in season 4.

Really? Who?

[The Darknight Detective]

My best guess is still that Savitar is the Barry/Flash who would have existed if the timeline had progressed normally, without any of the interference from Barry, Thawne, Zoom, etc.

He essentially had his entire life and timeline wiped away. If things had progressed normally, without outside interference, I believe he would have been the first speedster years in the future, that having been the original point where the speed force was created organically.

Instead Thawne went back to the past, killed Barry's mother, jump started the process early, created a different timeline and the "normal" course of history was forever changed.

That Barry/Flash lost his entire life. His mother was killed in front of him as well, he never married Iris, etc. He might have been willing to accept the sacrifice until he learned Barry created Flashpoint. Maybe that made him angry/insane since to him new Barry still had Iris, Joe, his frends and team. All of which new Barry took for granted.

Now he has returned from the speed force and is angry and going to take it out on Barry and even Team Flash.

That is my best guess based upon what we know. That original Barry has the power, experience, fits the narrative and wasn't raised by Joe but his two natural parents who have been killed since he became the Flash. One by Thawne and the other by Zolomon. That might be enough to drive anyone crazy as a "man out of time/who had his life stolen from him".

And, if he isn't trapped and stopped, perhaps he was going to try to return his original timeline. By doing so, Ronnie Raymond isn't killed and Killer Frost could get him back. Although presumably she would have to hope he shares the views of Deathstorm, not Firestorm. Or she would have to hide her evil side from Ronnie if he was good. But I guess Savitar could promise to find her a Deathstorm Ronnie somehow.

If Barry (or Wally) is Savitar, I would probably jump ship from the show. IMO, it would be dreadful.

[FlashEarthOne]

If Barry (or Wally) is Savitar, I would probably jump ship from the show. IMO, it would be dreadful.

The mystery of who Savitar is is the best part of this season. I'm already close to jumping ship. I will finish this season but something special has to happen in the final episode for me to return for season 4. I'm tired of the writers making Barry incompetent just to give "Team Flash" something to do... I've already jumped ship on their other three shows. The Berlantiverse does follow a pattern.

[Nate Grey]

If Barry (or Wally) is Savitar, I would probably jump ship from the show. IMO, it would be dreadful.

danteipp's theory sounds good but I too hope it isn't the case. I wouldn't jump ship per se but I don't think I'd be in a rush to watch it in the future.

[Jon Clark]

Could Savitar be Flashpoint Barry? Our Barry apparently returned to "the present" after saving his mom - so what happened to the Barry who had lived through the intervening years? The one who has no memories of being raised by Joe West or of dating iris.

Remember Savitar's first actions involved replacing people with their meta-human counterparts from Flashpoint. This could have been part of an attempt to restore the Flashpoint timeline. From Flashpoint Barry's viewpoint the Flash is just like Eobard Thawne since both travelled back and killed Barry's mother changing history as Barry knew it. Certainly enough reason for this time remnant to go insane.

[The Darknight Detective]

danteipp's theory sounds good but I too hope it isn't the case. I wouldn't jump ship per se but I don't think I'd be in a rush to watch it in the future.

Yeah, more likely I would do the same instead. I just hate the Parallax type of storyline.

[FlashEarthOne]

Could Savitar be Flashpoint Barry? Our Barry apparently returned to "the present" after saving his mom - so what happened to the Barry who had lived through the intervening years? The one who has no memories of being raised by Joe West or of dating iris.

Remember Savitar's first actions involved replacing people with their meta-human counterparts from Flashpoint. This could have been part of an attempt to restore the Flashpoint timeline. From Flashpoint Barry's viewpoint the Flash is just like Eobard Thawne since both travelled back and killed Barry's mother changing history as Barry knew it. Certainly enough reason for this time remnant to go insane.

After watching that teaser... I highly doubt it is Ronnie Raymond. Since when was Ronnie Raymond "always about time." He also wasn't that close to every member of "Team Flash." Savitar knows every team member very well.

[Nate Grey]

Yeah, more likely I would do the same instead. I just hate the Parallax type of storyline.

Plus now it would be redundant: after Defeated Emo Future Flash, we present Crazy Megalomaniacal Future Flash!

Please CW, don't.