The FLASH TV SERIES

[PyroTwilight]

Future power couple Savitar and Killer Frost. At least for a few years before Barry beats Savitar. :P

Or whatever the new timeline will give us.

[PyroTwilight]

Though I have to admit I was already questioning this entire premise prior to this episode even based on just the assumptions we had about Savitar being Barry or not.

Barry now knows the origin of how Savitar was trapped in the Speed Force and with what tech. So what reason does Barry have to trap Savitar there again after Iris' death? Especially if knowing that him doing it dooms Iris?

And while it seemed to have been a perfect loop (though those always raise the where did it start question) that's also been broken due to the technology being found/made earlier than it was originally in the timeline that allows Savitar to be captured. The timeline we saw in the future had Savitar presumably running amok for another 4 years before being trapped by the tech our scientist just made.

[David Walton]

IWell, I think Flash is still, at it's core, optimistic even if events and consequences are so often thrown Barry and co. way to make it harder for them to be that way, but they still pull through and keep moving forward while still trying their best to help people, help others, and save the day.

Though I do think it's starting to get ridiculous how much of the bad stuff that happens is ultimately Barry's fault.

Sure, Barry and co. keep trying to fight the good fight, but when you crunch the numbers it seems like the world would be better off if they hadn't.

They've just been putting out the fires that Barry started since the season one finale, and sometimes failing at that.

I do understand that heroes will occasionally face situations of their own making, but it can reach a point where their 'heroism' is costing more than it's worth.

The list of people whose lives would be better without Barry's involvement is getting really long, much more so than the people he's actually helped.

[Frontier]

Sure, Barry and co. keep trying to fight the good fight, but when you crunch the numbers it seems like the world would be better off if they hadn't.

They've just been putting out the fires that Barry started since the season one finale, and sometimes failing at that.

I do understand that heroes will occasionally face situations of their own making, but it can reach a point where their 'heroism' is costing more than it's worth.

The list of people whose lives would be better without Barry's involvement is getting really long, much more so than the people he's actually helped.

Well, given he's helped save the Multiverse, the planet, and the city on multiple occasions, I feel like the good he's ultimately done still outweighs his mistakes, and the list of people he's helped dwarfing those he hasn't, especially when he more often then not resolves said mistakes in the end.

I mean, if it wasn't for Barry, Zoom would still be terrorizing Earth-2 and masquerading as Jay Garrick, with the real Jay imprisoned by Zolomon.

If it wasn't for Barry, Jesse and Wally probably wouldn't have become heroes and done all the good they have.

If it wasn't for Barry's inspiration and heroism, a lot of heroic moments by the rest of the cast would probably not have happened.

And that's not including all the criminals, Supervillains, super-apes, aliens, and whatnot that Barry has stopped as The Flash. Even his existence was able to curb the Metahuman outbreak around the world because Metas were scared The Flash would come after them.

[Buried Alien]

Well, given he's helped save the Multiverse, the planet, and the city on multiple occasions, I feel like the good he's ultimately done still outweighs his mistakes, and the list of people he's helped dwarfing those he hasn't, especially when he more often then not resolves said mistakes in the end.

I mean, if it wasn't for Barry, Zoom would still be terrorizing Earth-2 and masquerading as Jay Garrick, with the real Jay imprisoned by Zolomon.

If it wasn't for Barry, Jesse and Wally probably wouldn't have become heroes and done all the good they have.

If it wasn't for Barry's inspiration and heroism, a lot of heroic moments by the rest of the cast would probably not have happened.

And that's not including all the criminals, Supervillains, super-apes, aliens, and whatnot that Barry has stopped as The Flash. Even his existence was able to curb the Metahuman outbreak around the world because Metas were scared The Flash would come after them.

Immediate family always pays the heaviest price, eh?

It seems like Barry/Flash's career has been good overall for the world, but just not that great for himself and his immediate circle of family/closest friends. That is the key reason that traditionally, superheroes kept their identities closely-guarded secrets. For THIS show's Barry, that was never something he's been successful at maintaining.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[David Walton]

Well, given he's helped save the Multiverse, the planet, and the city on multiple occasions, I feel like the good he's ultimately done still outweighs his mistakes, and the list of people he's helped dwarfing those he hasn't, especially when he more often then not resolves said mistakes in the end.

I mean, if it wasn't for Barry, Zoom would still be terrorizing Earth-2 and masquerading as Jay Garrick, with the real Jay imprisoned by Zolomon.

If memory serves, Zoom was dying, and if he hadn't gained access to multiple earths (and speedsters) his reign of terror would have been short-lived. Barry didn't deliberately open the portals between worlds, but it was an indirect result of him trying to save his mother at the end of S1 and giving Reverse Flash the speed he needed to accomplish his goals, provoking Eddie to end things by committing suicide. The multiverse wouldn't have been threatened in the first place if not for that sequence of events.

But maybe I'm wrong? My memory is a bit fuzzy on the details.

[Frontier]

Immediate family always pays the heaviest price, eh?

It seems like Barry/Flash's career has been good overall for the world, but just not that great for himself and his immediate circle of family/closest friends. That is the key reason that traditionally, superheroes kept their identities closely-guarded secrets. For THIS show's Barry, that was never something he's been successful at maintaining.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That's true for basically every Arrowverse lead. I can't count the number of times Oliver's wondered whether he does more harm then good when it comes to the effect he has on his loved ones.

Though now that I think about it, Supergirl's had it pretty good all things considered...

[Carabas]

Immediate family always pays the heaviest price, eh?

It seems like Barry/Flash's career has been good overall for the world, but just not that great for himself and his immediate circle of family/closest friends. That is the key reason that traditionally, superheroes kept their identities closely-guarded secrets. For THIS show's Barry, that was never something he's been successful at maintaining.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

To be fair, most villains know who he is because they read it in history books from the year 2648 or whatever.

[Captain Smith]

This came to me, if Barry can take off Caitlin's clothes and she didn't even notice (she was under the influence), why can't he go fast enough to punch her in the nose while she is yapping.

[The Darknight Detective]

This came to me, if Barry can take off Caitlin's clothes and she didn't even notice (she was under the influence), why can't he go fast enough to punch her in the nose while she is yapping.

PIS because Barry is just too powerful as written.

[Jim Kelly]

This came to me, if Barry can take off Caitlin's clothes and she didn't even notice (she was under the influence), why can't he go fast enough to punch her in the nose while she is yapping.

Because Barry is a gentleman. He'll take a woman's clothes off without her consent, but he won't punch her in the face.

[Frontier]

Because Barry is a gentleman. He'll take a woman's clothes off without her consent, but he won't punch her in the face.

Actually, has Barry ever punched a woman in the face?

He's fought, like, three or 4 female Supervillains over the course of his career but I'm not sure if he ever punched them...

[The Darknight Detective]

This came to me, if Barry can take off Caitlin's clothes and she didn't even notice (she was under the influence), why can't he go fast enough to punch her in the nose while she is yapping.

You would think he would have reversed the speed levels in those instances (only kidding! )

[Baseman]

If memory serves, Zoom was dying, and if he hadn't gained access to multiple earths (and speedsters) his reign of terror would have been short-lived. Barry didn't deliberately open the portals between worlds, but it was an indirect result of him trying to save his mother at the end of S1 and giving Reverse Flash the speed he needed to accomplish his goals, provoking Eddie to end things by committing suicide. The multiverse wouldn't have been threatened in the first place if not for that sequence of events.

But maybe I'm wrong? My memory is a bit fuzzy on the details.

I feel that people are overlooking the fact that Zoom was a serial killer at heart.If Barry had left him cut off on E2.What exactly is stopping him from spending his final days going on a rampage and killing everyone to spite Barry

[AJBopp]

My bet is that he's actually not Barry at all. Villains impersonating Barry is a time-honored FLASH trope, after all.

The promos for the episode stated specifically that Savitar's identity would be revealed. I can't believe they would advertise this as a reveal so resolutely and then pull a bait and switch.