The FLASH TV SERIES

[AJBopp]

I do continue to wonder if Flashpoint similarly led to Savitar's creation.

How could Flashpoint not have led to Savitar's creation? This whole season has been about Flashpoint as much as about Savitar. At this point there would be no purpose to Flashpoint if it didn't lead to Savitar.

[PyroTwilight]

How could Flashpoint not have led to Savitar's creation? This whole season has been about Flashpoint as much as about Savitar. At this point there would be no purpose to Flashpoint if it didn't lead to Savitar.

Well for one thing the future should be constantly in flux. Nothing about this season or Flashpoint is really necessary for Savitar to be possible at least as far as we can see so far, or for the future/Iris fate to be changed. And so far Savitar's connection to Flashpoint has been shown as more opportunistic than anything IE hunting down metas from that timeline for use and to create disciples.

[RyDub]

Well for one thing the future should be constantly in flux. Nothing about this season or Flashpoint is really necessary for Savitar to be possible at least as far as we can see so far, or for the future/Iris fate to be changed. And so far Savitar's connection to Flashpoint has been shown as more opportunistic than anything IE hunting down metas from that timeline for use and to create disciples.

Eh i have to disagree, in flashpoint, that is where Julian came from. He was not apart of preflashpoint. I think the big thing we all seem to have forgotten about is the philosphers stone. I think that is how and why Savitar is still apart of this world. I don't know why but both of those had no connection or history in preflashpoint. Savitar needed the final piece of the stone to fully break out of the speedforce. Somehow he was able to channel himself enough with that stone through Julian who is one of the people who found a piece of it. So through that i believe he was able to pull both himself and julian into the preflashpoint universe. Though chances are the stone has been completely forgotten about by writers and wont feature again at all.

[Carabas]

How could Flashpoint not have led to Savitar's creation? This whole season has been about Flashpoint as much as about Savitar. At this point there would be no purpose to Flashpoint if it didn't lead to Savitar.

I vaguely recall from somewhere mid-season that Flashpoint did not create Savitar, but he did credit it with providing him with the means to escape the Speedforce.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Despite probably making the most sense, I'm still not sold on Barry being Savitar. The biggest question, of course, is if Barry is in control of this whole situation, why become Savitar in the first place? Why kill Iris when he could've broken the loop? And why didn't the Speed Force (or even the Music Meister) interfere? At least Killer Frost's ice bridges were fun.

So, near-future "Bummed" Barry was lying about knowing who Savitar was.

Wasn't he? If not, do we ever find out one way or the other?

Also, was Abra Kadabra telling the truth as well?

Barry is a speedster, he could just run towards her and punch her out, he could do that 5 times but instead he is just standing there and looking at her?! And then he is jumping infront of people who she tries to shoot in the last second? Because?! Yes because it has to be dramatic! But it really isn't, it's just mind boggling stupid.

Despite his speed, Barry can still get panicked. When he sees someone he cares about right in the line of fire, all he seems to be thinking about is making sure that object hurtling towards them doesn't hit them, not the best strategy for dealing with it.

It seems like Barry/Flash's career has been good overall for the world, but just not that great for himself and his immediate circle of family/closest friends. That is the key reason that traditionally, superheroes kept their identities closely-guarded secrets. For THIS show's Barry, that was never something he's been successful at maintaining.

I'm surprised he was able to keep his mask on the entire time Tracy was there. Although considering she had already met Barry, HR, and Cisco, seeing everyone (and more) minus Barry but with the Flash later, she probably put two and two together anyway. Speaking of Tracy, does she remind anyone else of Sarah Chalke from Scrubs?

So my area is having our own comic con May 13-14th that has gotten pretty big over the years. Among some of the celebs coming this year are John Wesley Shipp who played Barry's Dad and Jay Garrick and Violett Beane who plays Jesse Quick. It's 40 bucks each for a pic and autograph from them. I am thinking about doing one. Who would you guys pick?

John Wesley Shipp.

[Frontier]

Despite probably making the most sense, I'm still not sold on Barry being Savitar. The biggest question, of course, is if Barry is in control of this whole situation, why become Savitar in the first place? Why kill Iris when he could've broken the loop? And why didn't the Speed Force (or even the Music Meister) interfere? At least Killer Frost's ice bridges were fun.

Honestly, with how the Speed Force has been acting this season, I wouldn't be surprised if they view Savitar another test for Barry to pass or fail.

They probably could do something, but they won't. Like how they let Thawne and Zoom go off and do whatever they liked with no consequences, unless you factor in Black Flash...

Also, was Abra Kadabra telling the truth as well?

Well, he never confirmed one way or the other who Savitar was to Barry, just that he hurt him more then his other major villains did, which is true.

I imagine Kadabra took even more sick pleasure in knowing that Savitar was really Barry Allen the entire time, with Barry none the wiser.

[adkal]

I vaguely recall from somewhere mid-season that Flashpoint did not create Savitar, but he did credit it with providing him with the means to escape the Speedforce.

Also, unless Flashpoint affected multiple Earths and histories there have been changed as well, Jay knew about Savitar and his history with speedsters in the multiverse.

[Frontier]

I wonder if Thawne knew about Savitar at all?

I always got the sense that he had some kind of idea about the trouble Barry was in after undoing Flashpoint before he left in the first episode, and if Kadabra knew about Savitar, it stands to reason Thawne might as well.

[Elmo]

I wonder if Thawne knew about Savitar at all?

I always got the sense that he had some kind of idea about the trouble Barry was in after undoing Flashpoint before he left in the first episode, and if Kadabra knew about Savitar, it stands to reason Thawne might as well.

Also the whole "now who's the villain, Flash?"

[Elmo]

For a future season I would like to see them introduce Bart Allen and possibly Inertia as well as Bart's time remnant who was raised by Eobard Thawne and given the name Thaddeus Thawne (basically giving him Cobalt Blue's origin instead of doing the whole clone origin) . Inertia could be working behind the scenes during the main storyline to try and resurrect Eobard and then Eobard could pop up again in the following season.

All I know is the series should end with Barry vs Eobard, that's how it started and it would be the perfect ending. I know all the characters have been telling Barry that Savitar is his biggest villain and that is hammered home by the fact that Savitar is Barry himself, not to mention how Eobard was the big bad of Legends this season; possibly as a way for producers to show us he isn't just Barry's personal big bad, but even still I consider the Reverse Flash to be the Flash's ultimate enemy, and I'd like to see the series end with the wrapping up of that saga. I also love Impulse and Inertia and I think they'd be super cool to bring in. There's a lot you could do with two rival speedsters that share the same face.

[Frontier]

For a future season I would like to see them introduce Bart Allen and possibly Inertia as well as Bart's time remnant who was raised by Eobard Thawne and given the name Thaddeus Thawne (basically giving him Cobalt Blue's origin instead of doing the whole clone origin) . Inertia could be working behind the scenes during the main storyline to try and resurrect Eobard and then Eobard could pop up again in the following season.

All I know is the series should end with Barry vs Eobard, that's how it started and it would be the perfect ending. I know all the characters have been telling Barry that Savitar is his biggest villain and that is hammered home by the fact that Savitar is Barry himself, not to mention how Eobard was the big bad of Legends this season; possibly as a way for producers to show us he isn't just Barry's personal big bad, but even still I consider the Reverse Flash to be the Flash's ultimate enemy, and I'd like to see the series end with the wrapping up of that saga. I also love Impulse and Inertia and I think they'd be super cool to bring in.

I think we'll probably see Bart at some point, if not necessarily next season.

Though it would be interesting to think how Bart's presence might effect Barry and Iris' relationship, depending on it's status by the end of the season, and Wally. Will Wally even still be Kid Flash going into season 4?

And I'm sure Thawne will come back in some form or another when the creators want to use him. He's Barry's eternal nemesis, and even if his Time Remnants were wiped out by Black Flash, there's still the future version of Thawne who's going to come back and menace Barry multiple times before they both go back in time to the night of Nora's death.

[Zero Hunter]

Honestly what I would like to see is the first episode of next season is Booster Gold popping up in Star labs and slaping a time lock on Barry and to prevent him from traveling in time forward or back. Booster could bitch out Barry for what a mess he keeps making of things and tell him that those days are over. The time lock would make it so if Barry got up to speed where he could open a time breach his conection to the Speed Force would be blocked and he would lose his powers for a few minutes. Time Travel has just become WAY too much of a crutch for this show and needs to be taken away for a while.

Honestly as much as Barry and the Legends have been screwing up time Booster should become a big part of both shows next seasons.

[Zero Hunter]

I think we'll probably see Bart at some point, if not necessarily next season.

Though it would be interesting to think how Bart's presence might effect Barry and Iris' relationship, depending on it's status by the end of the season, and Wally. Will Wally even still be Kid Flash going into season 4?

And I'm sure Thawne will come back in some form or another when the creators want to use him. He's Barry's eternal nemesis, and even if his Time Remnants were wiped out by Black Flash, there's still the future version of Thawne who's going to come back and menace Barry multiple times before they both go back in time to the night of Nora's death.

Instead of Bart how about the other of the Allen grandkids ....

[ZeroBG82]

Also, unless Flashpoint affected multiple Earths and histories there have been changed as well, Jay knew about Savitar and his history with speedsters in the multiverse.

Yeah, but Jay only knew that stuff AFTER Flashpoint had already been created. If Savitar is a product of Flashpoint, he would already have been created and been able to interact with the multiverse. And since he's a time traveler, we can't know if Jay's perspective was the same before Flashpoint as after.

Personally, I'm thinking that for the narrative of the season to really work, Flashpoint has be the underlying issue. Jay warned Barry that changing history has consequences. Savitar is that consequence. Barry can't beat him by changing the past, but only by changing the future. By letting go of his obsessive need to cling to the people he loves and just live his damn life. By learning to accept that he can't save everyone, all of the time. That for all his speed, he can't outrun death. And that using his powers selfishly is the path of the Dark Side. Oh, wait, wrong franchise. But it still fits.

[MykeHavoc]

I settled on Barry.

2024 Flash in ep 19 is the time remnant. His guilt is from real Barry winding up in the trap. He's the only one that knows, hence him not telling. He'll come back in the finale to take the blade for Iris, like he was supposed to. Everyone else is caught in the causality loop. Since he's on the outside, he can break it by intervention.