How do you feel about Ares as depicted by Azzarello

[mathew101281]

Though I like parts his depiction(him training Wonderwoman) I don't like the less villainous tone that he took with the character. Ares is one of the few Wonder Woman that I feel has "gotten over" with the general comic book audience and is seen as a legitimate threat. I feel Azzarello's depiction undermines the character in someways.

[RandomFalls]

I'm not sure what to vote for. I really like it, but I would say that it draws with Rucka's take for my favourite version of the character.

Azz's version worked really well for this story, but I'm a little unsure how well his Ares would work with in another run. So its probably for the best that he was killed off.

[Amazon Swordsman]

This Ares looks a bit too much like...Azz himself...it's like that was actually his favorite character, and his way of placing himself in the story.

EDIT: Or that was supposedly chiang's doing...interesting...

[Dr. Poison]

I don't care for it for a few different reasons:


1.) Azz took one of Wonder Woman's top 3 villains and turned him into her mentor. Unless WAres is resurrected, this eliminated a lot of potential future stories. Imagine if someone had done this with Brianiac/Superman instead.

2.) A lot of WAres grandeur was lost in transformation. WAres went from being the scariest of the Olympians to a dirty, drunken, decrepit, old man.

3.) Athena would have been a much better fit for the role of Diana's mentor given that the two had a closer connection in prior continuity.

4.) WAres is a dead wringer for Azzarello. I know that Chiang created New 52 WAres' design but I think it's a little arrogant to have a character that looks like one of the book's creators appearing in the comic, especially when said creator is not the creator of the character.

[Silvanus]

This Ares looks a bit too much like...Azz himself...it's like that was actually his favorite character, and his way of placing himself in the story.

EDIT: Or that was supposedly chiang's doing...interesting...

Yeah, supposedly he told Chiang to depict Ares as a broken down, bitter old man (or something like that), Chiang came back with this caricature of Azz, and Azz took the joke. I think that yes, it might have become their way of putting Azz into the story, but no, Ares probably wasn't Azz's favorite character. Azz once described Ares as "kind of a [um..a "Richard," as in Grayson? I don't want to break forum rules.]" So if anything it's a self-critical self-portrait. After all, Ares seems to have spent most of the five years of the New 52 drinking and hating himself, until he redeemed himself in the end. If I let myself read into it, I think Azzarello and Chiang were kind of jokingly saying something like this: "look, Wonder Woman is so wonderful that she can even light a spark in the burnt-out heart of a broken-down old man like Azzarello."

Imagine if someone had done this with Brianiac/Superman instead.

I'm honestly not sure when something unique is done with Wonder Woman , it always seems to raise this concern, "...but they'd never do that with Superman and Batman." So what? Part of Marston's purpose in creating Wonder Woman was to have a hero who would do some things that Superman and Batman seemingly would never do. And if there's one advantage to Wonder Woman's not being one of DC's biggest sellers, it's that DC might be a little less protective of her status quo and a little more willing to let creators be creative with her.

Besides, didn't Morrison have Superman revert Brainiac to being his cyber-assistant? (Granted, we knew it wouldn't last.)

) A lot of WAres grandeur was lost in transformation. WAres went from being the scariest of the Olympians to a dirty, drunken, decrepit, old man.

3.) Athena would have been a much better fit for the role of Diana's mentor given that the two had a closer connection in prior continuity.

4.) WAres is a dead wringer for Azzarello. I know that Chiang created New 52 WAres' design but I think it's a little arrogant to have a character that looks like one of the book's creators appearing in the comic, especially when said creator is not the creator of the character.

How "arrogant" can it be to depict oneself, through ones' doppleganger, as a "a dirty, drunken , decrepit, old man"? And certainly, having Athena as Diana's mentor would certainly have been more predictable, but Azz might have been going for ironic, surprising, original, and maybe even a little unsettling, rather than predictable.

[Vanguard-01]

Any display of Diana's redemptive powers is good stuff in my book. I love the changes.

It never made sense for Ares to be a Lucifer-style deceiver. Read the myths. Ares is about as FAR from subtle and deceptive as you can get. I think the idea of him as the god of a concept that has changed so much, he no longer even cares is a powerful message. And the idea that Diana managed to convince him to change his nature and fight for the good guys and even sacrifice himself in one last blaze of glory was just very well done.

[Dr. Poison]

Yeah, supposedly he told Chiang to depict Ares as a broken down, bitter old man (or something like that), Chiang cam back with this portrait of Azz, and Azz took the joke. I think that yes, it might have become their way of putting Azz into the story, but no, Ares probably wasn't Azz's favorite character. Azz once described Ares as "kind of a [um..a "Richard," as in Grayson? I don't want to break forum rules,]" so if anything it's a self-critical self-portrait. After all, Ares seems to have spent most of the five years of the New 52 drinking and hating himself, until he redeemed himself in the end. If I let myself read into it, I think Azzarello and Chiang were kind of jokingly saying something like this: "look, Wonder Woman is so wonderful that she can even light a spark in the burnt-out heart of a broken-down old man like Azzarello."



I'm honestly not sure when someting unique is done with WOnder WOman , someone always has to say "...but they'd never do that with Superman and Batman." So what? Part of Marston's purpose in creating Wonder Woman was to have a hero who would do some things that Superman and Wonder Woman would never do. And if there's one advantage to Wonder Woman's not being one of DC's biggest sellers, it's that DC might be a little less protective of her status quo and a little more willing to let creators be creative with her.

Besides, didn't Morrison have Superman revert Brainiac to being his cyber-assistant? (Granted, we knew it wouldn't last.)



How "arrogant" can it be to depict oneself as a "a dirty, drunken , decrepit, old man." And I think having Athena as Diana's mentor would certainly have been more predictable, but Azz might have been going for ironic, surprising, original, and maybe even a little unsettling, rather than predictable.

Well, my personal issue with this is that as it stands now, Azz transformed WAres into a short-term plot device and sacrificed long-term story potential for the character.

[AmiMizuno]

Ares in myth was the God of War and destruction. He is the nature of the bloodlust of war. Athena was the planning of war. It doe make sense. He had his sister Erife with him on his war chiaroit . He also had his sons fear and terror. War is chaos so it makes senses.

[Silvanus]

Ares in myth was the God of War and destruction. He is the nature of the bloodlust of war. Athena was the planning of war. It doe make sense. He had his sister Erife with him on his war chiaroit . He also had his sons fear and terror. War is chaos so it makes senses.

Often myth and religion used each god as an allegorical figure representing a single concept, so it made sense to have one god of bloodlust in war and a different god of strategy in war. But this story is more like a novel, in which we often expect major characters to be three-dimensional and complicated like real people, so it makes sense to mix strategy and bloodlust together in one person. He's still a semi-allegorical figure who represents war, but the story recognizes that war is a complex, multi-facted thing--it's chaos, for instance, but it's also sometimes an attempt to restore order,a t least in the minds of the warriors and those who direct or support them.

[AmiMizuno]

Often myth and religion used each god as an allegorical figure representing a single concept, so it made sense to have one god of bloodlust in war and a different god of strategy in war. But this story is more like a novel, in which we often expect major characters to be three-dimensional and complicated like real people, so it makes sense to mix strategy and bloodlust together in one person. He's still a semi-allegorical figure who represents war, but the story recognizes that war is a complex, multi-facted thing--it's chaos, for instance, but it's also sometimes an attempt to restore order,a t least in the minds of the warriors and those who direct or support them.

that's why there Athena. Ares is shown to be smart and planned but gets into more of bloodlust when going into war. War is complex however in myth Ares could was reason of some parts of strategy. However Ares always was humiliated where Athena was mainly the victory. To me Ares is natire is the chaos and blood shed of war. He might plan and train but soon would want blood shed. He can be written has a villain

[BlackFeath]

I really liked Ares in this run. His interaction with Diana, the way he trained her and at the same time learned from and was changed by her... I really loved it!
My favourite depiction because it is unexpected, and at the same time well written. Also, it shows how Diana can even change War himself. Having Athena as her mentor wouldn't have been something new, and it would not have had the same effect for me, since Athena is already considered "good", so Diana couldn’t have had with her the same interaction she had with Ares.

[Blacksun]

Chiang’s visual reinterpretation of the mythos reflects modern ideas. War has changed a lot from classical antiquity to nowadays, as did his brothers and sisters. A bloodlusty armored muscular guy doesn’t make sense anymore. But that doesn’t mean War is dead—the concept is still alive. Judging by this comic’s depiction of Ares, these days War has to drink a lot to forget all that he has seen.
http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/201...eek-mythology/

agree, it made Ares a more 3Dimensional character

[AmiMizuno]

I see what your saying. However War especially invaders are choas and many are out for blood when it comes to hate. So saying that bloodlust is gone I disagrees. Ares with his sons fear and terror and Efrice are how. Together as the whole o war in order to modern you have to include them. Ares modern should symbol the destruction of war still. War is fright and terror for many people experiencing war. Although a modern updated would be more on playing on conspiriy

[SofNascimento]

In the very least, it's the best version of Ares we've seen in any comic ever.

[Silvanus]

I see what your saying. However War especially invaders are choas and many are out for blood when it comes to hate. So saying that bloodlust is gone I disagrees. Ares with his sons fear and terror and Efrice are how. Together as the whole o war in order to modern you have to include them. Ares modern should symbol the destruction of war still. War is fright and terror for many people experiencing war. Although a modern updated would be more on playing on conspiriy

Did anyone actually say that bloodlust is gone? Azz and Chiang definitely are not saying bloodlust is gone; their Ares, with his bloody footsteps, was drawn to the most bloodsoaked corners of the globe, to scenes of the most sordid violence. He had ordered a 12-year-old student to invade someone's home and kill without mercy. He just happened to hate himself for his bloodlust and for all of his badness, having come to doubt his own belief in the honor and value of war.

that's why there Athena. Ares is shown to be smart and planned but gets into more of bloodlust when going into war. War is complex however in myth Ares could was reason of some parts of strategy. However Ares always was humiliated where Athena was mainly the victory. To me Ares is natire is the chaos and blood shed of war. He might plan and train but soon would want blood shed. He can be written has a villain

Like I was saying, in allegories, where everyone represents one clear concept, it can make sense to divide war into "bloodshed" and "strategy." In more novel-like fictions, where you generally want major characters to be complicated like real people, it can make some sense to mix bloodshed and strategy in one figure. Even in myths, that happened sometimes, because over time, a god who was supposed to represent one thing took on other attributes and became more complicated. As you note, Ares wasn't always depicted as completely mindless, and if you look at the hymns to Ares, there are some positive and constructive attributes mixed in with the destructive attributes. And the Romans' Mars was, in effect, a god of peace and good government as well as war.

That doesn't mean that there can't also be an Athena who has her own perspective on war. Even if she doesn't get called a goddess of war, as Justice she may have "just war" (war justified by good principles) in her jurisdiction--but often bloodthirsty things are done in the conduct of wars that started out as "just," so Athena could be a complicated character too.

Perez and others who followed him got that there was some value in showing strategy, and even some honor, and bloodlust mixed together in one embodiment of war. As terrible as Perez's Ares was, he was able to think strategically about his own interests, so that he could learn from Wonder Woman that unchecked nuclear destruction was not in his interests but would destroy even him, since there would be no one left to make war.