How do you feel about Ares as depicted by Azzarello

[wagthedog]

War was strong and young before meet a young Diana, it was recently that he become a not sexy old man

So, in story time, it took Ares about 12 years in your mind to go from strong and young to old and not sexy?

[Black Angel]

War was strong and young before meet a young Diana, it was recently that he become a not sexy old man

yea never got that either are the olympians even suppose to age? or did he stop eating ambrosia or something

[Step]

yea never got that either are the olympians even suppose to age? or did he stop eating ambrosia or something

I think he chose to take this form, one day he just stopped trying, that's what I took from that.

Like, Hera is his mother and looks younger than him soo yeah

[Blacksun]

So, in story time, it took Ares about 12 years in your mind to go from strong and young to old and not sexy?

yes?

I think the exterior reflects the nature of the interior, when Ares stopped being over confident in War he lost his good appearence.

[Dr. Poison]

"Creative no-no" is a little bit of an oxymoron, don't you think? To the creative mind, rules are important, but they are usually breakable, and breaking them can be very important; they just need to be broken intelligently and with purpose. Morrison didn't care if it was a "creative no-no" to inject himself into his work as a character called The Author. Kanigher was happy to insert himself as the villain of an issue of Wonder WOman in which he eliminated most of the Silver Age supporting cast and villains. The novelist Paul Auster brilliantly inserts himself as a character, or possibly two characters (Paul Auster the writer, and Paul Auster the detective--who may or not be "real" in world of the novels) in his New York Trilogy. Vonnegut has a pretty obvious stand-in in the science fiction write Kilgore Trout in Slaughterhouse Five. This kind of metafiction isn't even exclusively a postmodern thing; Hemingway's narrator characters were sometimes pretty recognizably Hemingway. Cervantes inserted himself into Don Quixote in several important metafictional ways.

Anyway, I can see how presenting oneself as Wonder Woman's mentor or guide could seem arrogant; but then again, the writer as a character's mentor or guide kind of makes sense as a metaphor, since a writer necessarily directs the character's actions. And as he's presenting himself as a self-hating, bitter old man who broke off his mentorship of Wonder Woman after trying to make her betray her values of peace and mercy, that seems more self-denigrating than arrogant, to me.



No one person "created" Ares--as you sometimes like to remind us, he's in the public domain--but Azzarello created this version. By the way, I don't think it's arrogant of you to take the name Doctor Poison, even though you didn't create that character. And let me ask you this: do you think it would be arrogant of a socially awkward, physically unattractive, short-statured writer to write himself into Dr. Psycho, or Marvel's Toad? To me, this would more likely be a sign of a self-deprecating sense of humor.

I'm not saying Azzarello isn't arrogant; I don't know that he is, but I would guess that he at least has a healthy-sized ego. But letting an artist depict him as a an embittered, worn-out old man who leaves a trail of bloody footsteps as he traipses from drive-by-shooting to suicide bombing, having failed to corrupt Wonder Woman into mercilessness? That doesn't strike me as a very positive self-portrait, and so it doesn't seem arrogant.

As for why I think Cassandra might take the role and name of Nemesis--it's just a wild guess, but here's my reasoning:

1. We know that Nemesis, who classically was the goddess of vengeance, is going to figure into the Future's End issues of Wonder Woman and Superman/Wonder Woman;
2. As one of the writers of Futures End as well as the outgoing writer of Wonder Woman, Azz may have had some influence over the Wonder woman: Future's End story, and he might have wanted it to grow out of his story in some way, so I think there's a chance that Nemesis will be connected to his story and won't be just a random villain-of-the day;
3. Cassandra is someone who seems to want revenge on the world, and who know has specific reasons to want vengeance on the First Born, so she seems like a decent fit for the role of goddess of vengeance
4. Last time we saw the goddess Nemesis, she was looking for a replacement (though this is my weakest premise, because I don't have any reason to think that Azz would be specifically interested in picking up a point form the discarded continuity of Wonder Woman: Odyssey)
5. This run has established that one can take on a god's role, at least in some cases, by killing him or her--so there's a chance that Cassandra could become Nemesis by killing Nemesis.
6. It's been a few months since I came up with some really good, out-there speculation, so it's time.

LoL.....but with Dr. Poison and I, it's the reverse. I'm a fan of the character so I'm using her name as my screen-name to help create awareness of her. I certainly wouldn't ever depict her to look anything like me. As for the WAres being a public domain character, that's correct. Azz didn't create him and we have no idea who did so I don't think any creator should have WAres look like him, even if they put a somewhat different spin on the character. What's next? Big Bear of the Forever People looking like a dead-wringer of Dan Didio?

Thanks for your explanation on Cassandra and Nemesis although I think it will be the version we saw in the Odyssey or something very similar(not that I was hoping to see her again this soon).

[Silvanus]

LoL.....but with Dr. Poison and I, it's the reverse. I'm a fan of the character so I'm using her name as my screen-name to help create awareness of her. I certainly wouldn't ever depict her to look anything like me.

Heh. Well, you're attaching her name to yourself (or at least, to your posting persona), and Azz is attaching himself (or at least, his appearance) to War's name. Same difference. I don't see why calling yourself by someone else's name is less of an appropriation than letting someone be drawn in a way that looks like you. (And I mean no criticism--I'm using the name of a Roman woodland god, after all, even if I am only doing it because it has the letters s-l-v-n in it. And I just found out that this may even be a little like calling myself Ares or Mars, because there was at least one classical reference to the god "Mars Silvanus").

[Carabas]

I tolerate it, but I'm not a fan. I agree with Dr. Poison that it's a bit arrogant to use your own physical appearance as the "God of War," though it may not be what he was intending. Still, various interviews and such make him come off as a bit pretentious (sarcastically so or not).

I'm still waiting for sexy Ares to return:



In my opinion, war is destructive and seductive, and I think Rucka had the best depiction of the war god so far.

While I like both Rucka's and Azzarello's versions, Azzarello's is more like I would expect a god of war to be, Rucka's was more a suave supervillain kind of guy.

[Silvanus]

yes?

I think the exterior reflects the nature of the interior, when Ares stopped being over confident in War he lost his good appearence.

Yeah, exactly. The gods are what they represent, and when Ares got disllusioned he came to represent a different, less glamorous, more sordid view of war, so he morphed into a less glamorous, more sordid representation of war.

[Carabas]

Heh. Well, you're attaching her name to yourself (or at least, to your posting persona), and Azz is attaching himself (or at least, his appearance) to War's name.

Azz isn't. Cliff Chiang is responsible for that.

[Top Carnivore]

Here's the thing for me.

1. I really don't like Ares as a mentor and would much rather have seen Athena as a mentor as it makes a lot more sense considering Diana's origins.

2. I love the way Ares is being written in the book and the interplay between him and Diana, but I still would have preferred Ares as a villain.

It just feels 'what if Lex Luthor had been Clark Kent's science professor and mentor in high school' and the entire 'villainy' angle of the character removed. Ares has been her antithesis from the get-go and I miss that.

I always enjoy reading your well thought-out posts and generally agree. But there's something deliciously sinister about Ares training a young Diana, especially if it's done in secret. I grew up with the "no men on PI rule," so it also seems wrong having Ares on the island--but wrong can be so good. Lol. And now that you mention it, Lex being some sort of mentor to young Clark could work too. I think it's because I crave irony in fiction. And how ironic would it be if Clark's mentor is actually a bad guy who ends up being SM's arch foe.

[Gaelforce]

I always enjoy reading your well thought-out posts and generally agree. But there's something deliciously sinister about Ares training a young Diana, especially if it's done in secret. I grew up with the "no men on PI rule," so it also seems wrong having Ares on the island--but wrong can be so good. Lol. And now that you mention it, Lex being some sort of mentor to young Clark could work too. I think it's because I crave irony in fiction. And how ironic would it be if Clark's mentor is actually a bad guy who ends up being SM's arch foe.

Except Ares never ended up Diana's arch enemy.

If he had mentored her as a child and she rejected the mantle of god of war so that he declared her his enemy in the end, that would have worked for me.

But, to continue the analogy, Lex not only is Clark's science teacher but also a father figure who never becomes a bad guy.

Sorta lacks something, imo.

[numberthirty]

It's a creative no-no to input yourself into your works. Bits of yourself, yes, but your whole physical look? Particularly for the god of war? You're free to feel differently, though.

Isn't it a creative no-no to decide there are creative no-nos?

No.

Now, I have to ask. How is art served by an artist deciding there are things they cannot do?

[Top Carnivore]

Except Ares never ended up Diana's arch enemy.

If he had mentored her as a child and she rejected the mantle of god of war so that he declared her his enemy in the end, that would have worked for me.

But, to continue the analogy, Lex not only is Clark's science teacher but also a father figure who never becomes a bad guy.

Sorta lacks something, imo.

Absolutely. This I def agree with. Ares mentoring Diana works perfectly if she eventually rejects the god of war title and he becomes her arch foe. It even works a lot better than the Clark/Lex example because Clark already has two fathers in Pa Kent and Jor-el...adding a third father-figure is overkill. But the nu-52 Diana grew up thinking she was made from clay and most could understand how she might want a father figure (if it's not sacrilegious to say that about Amazons, lol), which a manipulative Ares could easily take advantage of.

[dupersuper]

Somewhere between the top 2 options.