The Kang Dynasty: One of the Best and Most Ambitious Ever

[gurkle]

The only bone I have to pick with the story is that, like Celestial Madonna, it suffers a bit from the lack of a regular artist. Alan Davis left the book after doing the first three issues in the story, and they got Kieron Dwyer (with his then-inker, current writer Rick Remender) toward the end of the run, but the result was 15 issues drawn 5 or 6 different pencillers. I'm sure they would have preferred to have one regular penciller and use the "spotlight" issues for other artists.

A friend who was collecting the comics at the time also said he felt it was too drawn out, which I suppose it might be if you had to wait 30 days between each instalment. In collections, though, it works fine.

The thing I like best about this story is that even though it is a "dark" story where the bad guy wins and innocents die (though no Avengers die, somehow) and Carol kills a man, it doesn't do it by making the characters "dark" and angry and bitter. Busiek sticks to the thing that I think makes his run such a favorite of so many people, which is that all the characters are presented as the best versions of themselves, and he tries to make them interesting without showing them at their worst. (Okay, he did show Carol at her lowest, but that was much earlier in the run, and by now she's much better.) So even with a much darker story involving a more complex and scary world, the Avengers are all still the same old goody-two-shoes heroes, and they're actually more interesting for that than if they were all fighting with each other.

As one of the last "old-school" Marvel comics published in the Quesada/Jemas era, complete with the narrative captions and thought balloons and occasional flashbacks - though not nearly as many flashbacks as in the Pérez run - this story is a wonderful transition between eras of comics, a bridge between the back-to-basics, old-school superhero comics movement of the late '90s and the darker, more militarized world of early '00s comics.

That was my main problem with it. It was an Earth effecting event and it was ignored by every other series going on at the time and there was no fallout after wards and everything was back to normal the next month. That is why I hate story lines like that anymore. A whole city or country or even the world is effected and within a month it is never referanced again.

Well, I recall Busiek saying here that he and Brevoort told other writers what they planned to do and gave them the option of referencing it, but most of them decided not to. The fact that no one else was referencing it may have been one of the things that kept it from having quite as much impact at the time as it might have, but I think it actually helps the story now, since (except for the 'Nuff Said issue) it's not tied in with other Marvel comics/events and can tell its own story its own way.

Between Kang's destruction of D.C. and Cassandra Nova's murder of 16 million mutants in Genosha, there sure was a lot of casual genocide in early '00s Marvel comics, though.

[Zero Hunter]

Lets not forget Magneto turning New York into a madhouse in Morrisons run either.

The only time I thought a mega story was handled well was during Simonson's Thor run where Malekith opened the casket of ancient winters and alot of book showed it snowing even if they were not involved in the main story.

I guess that is just one more drawback of having the Marvel U basically consist of New York City is that when they are all crammed into on general location it just makes it harder to look past characters not reacting to major events hapening just a few blocks over.

[Cap10nate]

The thing I like best about this story is that even though it is a "dark" story where the bad guy wins and innocents die (though no Avengers die, somehow) and Carol kills a man, it doesn't do it by making the characters "dark" and angry and bitter. Busiek sticks to the thing that I think makes his run such a favorite of so many people, which is that all the characters are presented as the best versions of themselves, and he tries to make them interesting without showing them at their worst. (Okay, he did show Carol at her lowest, but that was much earlier in the run, and by now she's much better.) So even with a much darker story involving a more complex and scary world, the Avengers are all still the same old goody-two-shoes heroes, and they're actually more interesting for that than if they were all fighting with each other.

Busiek did such a fantastic job with the characters in his entire run and especially in Kang Dynasty. Thor had an amazing character arc in Dynasty as he is becoming disillusioned about being around mortals. His interactions with Firebird were very heartfelt and powerful. You really get to see Wanda and Simon have a fantastic relationship while in the concentration camp. Carol's story arc was great from the alcoholism through her redemption and then killing the Master. Above all, Kang's interactions and story arc with Marcus were nothing short of great.

[Nomads1]

This was the last truly great Avengers story, in my opinion. I re-read it every couple of months (along with A Forever), and I'm struck my how much is going on throughout the story. Yet, it's still perfectly balanced. Love the Astro City style epilogue with the accountant, too. Such a fitting capstone to Kurt's run.

IMO the last truly great Avengers arc btw

When Avengers were good!

Kang Dynasty is without a doubt high among my top ten favorite Avengers stories (and Marvel stories in general), but I consider Red Zone the last great classic ride in the EMH's story. World Trust might have been too, but, as is, it ended just being set up for a big pay-off we never got to see (because Johns left to become DC's golden boy). I know a lot of fans don't dig much Johns run, but I liked it quite a lot, and I find Red Zone pitch perfect. (However, Kang Dynasty is still higher in my list.)

That was my main problem with it. It was an Earth effecting event and it was ignored by every other series going on at the time and there was no fallout after wards and everything was back to normal the next month. That is why I hate story lines like that anymore. A whole city or country or even the world is effected and within a month it is never referanced again.

Yeah, this really bugged me. I think the only "mention" I remember seeing was in a Thunderbolts issue. It didn't affect much my enjoyment of the story as a whole, however would it have killed for a Spider-Man writer to mention the state of caos that the world was in following Kang's conquest of it, or the FF writer mentioning that Ben and Johnny had spent a couple of weeks in Kang's prisioner camps? Certianly would have given the whole thing a shine of grandeur.

And yet, run of the mills stories like Disassembled suddenly are raised in importance due to, then,becoming policy to tie in every single book to Bendis crapfests. It really irks me when Bendis' lovers want to point out that the Avengers only got good and started to matter after Bendis, ignoring the fact that quality had nothing to do with this, just a company policy.

The only bone I have to pick with the story is that, like Celestial Madonna, it suffers a bit from the lack of a regular artist. Alan Davis left the book after doing the first three issues in the story, and they got Kieron Dwyer (with his then-inker, current writer Rick Remender) toward the end of the run, but the result was 15 issues drawn 5 or 6 different pencillers. I'm sure they would have preferred to have one regular penciller and use the "spotlight" issues for other artists.

Yeah, the rotation of artists brought down a bit the quality of the story, opposed to what it could have been with a regular top level artist. I eventually got to like a lot Manuel Garcia, but IMHO, he sure wasn't ready for the big time when he did his half a dozen issues in Kang Dynasty, especially comming after a super-star such as Alan Davis. Wish they'd gone with Patrick Zircher or Ivan Reis in his place (both did a couple of fill-ins later on). Personally, I liked Kieron Dwyer.

Peace

[Iron Maiden]

Yeah, this really bugged me. I think the only "mention" I remember seeing was in a Thunderbolts issue. It didn't affect much my enjoyment of the story as a whole, however would it have killed for a Spider-Man writer to mention the state of caos that the world was in following Kang's conquest of it, or the FF writer mentioning that Ben and Johnny had spent a couple of weeks in Kang's prisioner camps? Certianly would have given the whole thing a shine of grandeur.

I remember reading the Fantastic Four at the time (Waid was writing at the time I think) and there was this panel in the Avengers book showing She Hulk, the Thing and some others in these yokes around their necks being marched away as POWs. If you read the FF none of it was mentioned. I always thought that was odd since Marvel used to be really good about that in years past. If the FF writer didn't want to tie in then there could have been a caption that this story takes place after whatever issue the Avengers were on that month.

[hawkeyefan]

It is a great story. A large cast, multiple threats, pretty dire stakes. I definitely remember at the time that I felt like it was going on too long, but when I went back and read it as a whole, it was great.

As for it not reflecting in other Marvel titles at the time, that never bothered me. That almost never happens on a scale that would really satisfy readers who worry about that stuff. The only time I can think of is during Simonson's Thor. And even then, all that happened was it was snowing in summer, and every now and then Spider-Man or whoever would run into some dark elves or what have you.

To me, the mark of a good comic story is if it stands on its own, not in tangential tie ins to other books. And Kang Dynasty meets that criteria for sure.

[Cap10nate]

As for it not reflecting in other Marvel titles at the time, that never bothered me. That almost never happens on a scale that would really satisfy readers who worry about that stuff. The only time I can think of is during Simonson's Thor. And even then, all that happened was it was snowing in summer, and every now and then Spider-Man or whoever would run into some dark elves or what have you.

To me, the mark of a good comic story is if it stands on its own, not in tangential tie ins to other books. And Kang Dynasty meets that criteria for sure.

I don't mind that it wasn't mentioned in the other books at the time, I just wish it was still mentioned every now and then today. He conquered the world and destroyed Washington, D.C. You'd think that it would be mentioned a few times after it happened. But I guess the same can be said for just about every big story line. It's an amazing feat for Kang that is usually forgotten.

[hawkeyefan]

I don't mind that it wasn't mentioned in the other books at the time, I just wish it was still mentioned every now and then today. He conquered the world and destroyed Washington, D.C. You'd think that it would be mentioned a few times after it happened. But I guess the same can be said for just about every big story line. It's an amazing feat for Kang that is usually forgotten.

I can understand that. I wouldn't mind that being brought up at all. In general, Marvel has moved away from making specific references to past stories. Which on one hand, I can understand as you don't want to overwhelm newer readers...but on the other hand, whenever Kang appears there is obviously a pre-exisiting history between him and the Avengers...so a little elaboration on that wouldn't hurt.

[vitruvian]

Between Kang's destruction of D.C. and Cassandra Nova's murder of 16 million mutants in Genosha, there sure was a lot of casual genocide in early '00s Marvel comics, though.

Did they ever bother to show how DC got reconstructed and (in a world with Damage Control, more difficult) repopulated?

[kilderkin]

One of my favorite stories of all time, I think the Kang Dynasty really defined what Kang was all about. It showed everything that makes him a great villain. He's all about conquest and will always stack the odds in his favor but he has a code of honor that he adheres to. He's not just one of my favorite Avengers villain but one of my all-time favorites(#1 Ultron, #2 Kang, #3 Count Nefaria #4 Korvac).

He put the Avengers to the test, accomplishing the rare feat of conquering Earth in this timeline(not an alternate reality). At the same time, the Avengers were also dealing with the Triune, the Master and an alien invasion. This is one of the greatest and unfortunately, one of the more underappreciated Avengers storylines imo.

I'm glad to hear that Kurt Busiek's run will finally be collected in an omnibus and we'll all have a chance to enjoy it again.

all of this I like

A great story making the best use of a great villain

It seemed to last for ages but at no point did it feel bloated

Brilliant

[Tien Long]

For me, Kang Dynasty started off strong, kinda fizzled during the middle, but finished better towards the end. Busiek built up the Kang subplot in the 3 issues before the main storyline. Additionally, Busiek kicked off the story well, thanks in no small part to Alan Davis' art. A change in artists in the middle of the storyline muddled things up, while the end chapters were nicely done.

There were a couple of major problems. I agree it did seem to last for ages, which wasn't necessarily a good thing. I kept thinking when was this story finally going to resolve itself. Also, it seemed to exist outside of the rest of the goings of the Marvel Universe. The most apparent of which was Thor. While in Avengers, Thor was helping the Avengers, in his own title he had become king of Asgard and was becoming standoffish with the rest of the Avengers. That discrepancy, among others, really hurt the story.

Still, I think it was a great swan song for Busiek's run. Hope to read it all over again!

[gurkle]

Did they ever bother to show how DC got reconstructed and (in a world with Damage Control, more difficult) repopulated?

Nope, in Geoff Johns' first issue (which otherwise had the exact same team as the end of the Busiek run), the Wasp and Yellowjacket go to D.C. and mention offhand how it's all back to normal.

Avengers v3 057-002.jpg

This is a problem with stories like Kang Dynasty or Operation Galactic Storm that kill off millions of anonymous people off-panel but don't kill any heroes. It seems edgy because villains in older stories would never have been able to kill that many people, but it's kind of meaningless because we never met any of those people before and we'll never hear about them again. The only actual character Kang was able to kill was Busiek's original non-superhero character, poor Duane Freeman. And no one ever mentioned him again.

[vitruvian]

Nope, in Geoff Johns' first issue (which otherwise had the exact same team as the end of the Busiek run), the Wasp and Yellowjacket go to D.C. and mention offhand how it's all back to normal.

Avengers v3 057-002.jpg

This is a problem with stories like Kang Dynasty or Operation Galactic Storm that kill off millions of anonymous people off-panel but don't kill any heroes. It seems edgy because villains in older stories would never have been able to kill that many people, but it's kind of meaningless because we never met any of those people before and we'll never hear about them again. The only actual character Kang was able to kill was Busiek's original non-superhero character, poor Duane Freeman. And no one ever mentioned him again.

That's pretty ridiculous. I mean, even if technically (and with enough funding) Damage Control could rebuild the city (and why they would rebuild anything but the Federal district and maybe good-sized chunks of NW exactly the way they used to be), where are you going to find millions of people willing to relocate to the rebuilt city in that kind of time frame? You'd have pretty much a ghost town for at least a year or two while estates, insurance claims, etc. all got figured out.

Not that I was a big fan of the storyline overall or the excuses it presented for both the Feds and the superheroes not helping out more and earlier, but at least No Man's Land over in the Batman books did a better job of showing a city undergoing a gradual recovery from a disaster.