NYCC: Phil Jimenez At The LGBT Panel – Why Would Anybody Want To Make A Movie Out Of This Wonder Wom

[Dr. Poison]

Actually yes, but like no other writer ever cleaned up someone else messes. He criticized not everyone else, but also himself.

In Phil's defense, Diana donned the "screaming chicken" armor in light of a global/universal threat known as Imperiax(sp?) not just some threat segregated to just her own book. Imperiax was so powerful that the Justice League, Justice Society, Teen Titans, etc. were all on scene to take on this threat so it makes sense that Diana would want a little extra protection and offense at the same time.

[Silvanus]

Actually yes, but like no other writer ever cleaned up someone else messes. He criticized not everyone else, but also himself.

I don't know if you read my response to Brett, Trekkie Gal, but I did note that Jiminez sort of includes himself. At least, he acknowledges that he is, in fact, male. It's not clear, though, to what extent he meant to say that his own run was guilty of some of the same traits that he criticizes in some other runs by men:

Noting that “mostly men (including myself) worked on her” over the years, he felt that male writers simply had a hard time figuring her out, and as such the character had devolved into a sort of generic “warrior maiden” archetype that is already well-covered by other characters. Jimenez felt the original “queer” version: “crazy, fun-loving, up to the challenge… not covered head to toe in gladiatorial gear” was uniquely compelling, but that current popular manifestations of the character were simply too mired in this male-driven vision to percolate into an interesting character for film.

OK, male writers have a hard time figuring her out; but having a hard time isn't always the same as failing. Presumably Jiminez doesn't think that the very few runs by women were the only ones ever done well, so he must think it is possible, if difficult, for men to succeed at the job. Does Jiminez believe that he managed to figure her out pretty well during his run? Or does he include his run among the "current popular manifestations" that have lost the vision of the original? He doesn't say, as far as I can see.

Personally, I think there is some of the spirit of the original in Jiminez; that's why I noted that, even in the issues in which she wears the Screaming Chicken armor, there are tender moments between her and Hippolyta. The same is true of Azzarello and Chiang's version (which, personally, I happen to enjoy more).

n Phil's defense, Diana donned the "screaming chicken" armor in light of a global/universal threat known as Imperiax(sp?) not just some threat segregated to just her own book. Imperiax was so powerful that the Justice League, Justice Society, Teen Titans, etc. were all on scene to take on this threat so it makes sense that Diana would want a little extra protection and offense at the same time.

I understand your point, but personally, I don't like using the number of heroes and/or books involved as an index of how big (or global or universal) a threat is supposed to be. This tends to create the impression that events and tie-ins matter more than other comics, which is unfortunate, perhaps event and tie-ins, lacking the personal vision and focus that a single author can bring, are not so good. The First Born, in the current run, is presented as a threat to all existence, so if Imperiex warranted armor, I think the First Born does as well.

[Dr. Poison]

I understand your point, but personally, I don't like using the number of heroes and/or books involved as an index of how big (or global or universal) a threat is supposed to be. This tends to create the impression that events and tie-ins matter more than other comics, which is unfortunate, perhaps event and tie-ins, lacking the personal vision and focus that a single author can bring, are not so good. The First Born, in the current run, is presented as a threat to all existence, so if Imperiex warranted armor, I think the First Born does as well.

Who's PowerGuy?

See, now it's hard for me to accept that the First Born is really a threat to all existence as Diana and Orion are the only real DC heroes that are opposing him. Just about any other time there has been a threat of global, universal, or all-existence proportion, other DC heroes are at least mentioned if not seen dealing with some expect of the threat(i.e. Anti-Monitor, Sinestro Corpos, Atlantean Army, Circe's all female villain army, etc.) but not even England's premier heroine Godiva has even been mentioned as dealing with any of the First Born's forces. It's really hard to believe that there is a threat to all existence and none of the 3 Justice League teams, Birds of Prey, Teen Titans, Doom Patrol, Freedom Fighters, etc. are seen or even mentioned in this book as trying to save all of creation. This isn't just a complaint about Azzarello here. I would be saying the same thing even if the story was written by Phil(who's my favorite WW writer). It just seems very far-fetched in a shared universe.

[Silvanus]

Who's PowerGuy?

You'll always be Power Guy to me.

Yours,
slvn

(I guess the impending end of the run is just making me nostalgic. )

[Blacksun]

Who's PowerGuy?

See, now it's hard for me to accept that the First Born is really a threat to all existence as Diana and Orion are the only real DC heroes that are opposing him. Just about any other time there has been a threat of global, universal, or all-existence proportion, other DC heroes are at least mentioned if not seen dealing with some expect of the threat(i.e. Anti-Monitor, Sinestro Corpos, Atlantean Army, Circe's all female villain army, etc.) but not even England's premier heroine Godiva has even been mentioned as dealing with any of the First Born's forces. It's really hard to believe that there is a threat to all existence and none of the 3 Justice League teams, Birds of Prey, Teen Titans, Doom Patrol, Freedom Fighters, etc. are seen or even mentioned in this book as trying to save all of creation. This isn't just a complaint about Azzarello here. I would be saying the same thing even if the story was written by Phil(who's my favorite WW writer). It just seems very far-fetched in a shared universe.

well other heroes doesn't know he is a threat for all universe.

[Silvanus]

See, now it's hard for me to accept that the First Born is really a threat to all existence as Diana and Orion are the only real DC heroes that are opposing him. Just about any other time there has been a threat of global, universal, or all-existence proportion, other DC heroes are at least mentioned if not seen dealing with some expect of the threat(i.e. Anti-Monitor, Sinestro Corpos, Atlantean Army, Circe's all female villain army, etc.) but not even England's premier heroine Godiva has even been mentioned as dealing with any of the First Born's forces. It's really hard to believe that there is a threat to all existence and none of the 3 Justice League teams, Birds of Prey, Teen Titans, Doom Patrol, Freedom Fighters, etc. are seen or even mentioned in this book as trying to save all of creation. This isn't just a complaint about Azzarello here. I would be saying the same thing even if the story was written by Phil(who's my favorite WW writer). It just seems very far-fetched in a shared universe.

After three years of reading this run and seeing virtually no references to other things going on in the DCU--other than the New Gods and an easter egg or two--I don't really think about other DC characters while I'm reading and thinking about this book. And that, to me, is a good thing--the team has a pretty specific vision, and they've been focusing on one corner of the world, and mentioning stuff extraneous to that world would be...extraneous. Sure, they could throw it in an occasional mention of this hero and that one, but that would just make it noticeable and jarring when some other hero does not come up; if the team is consistent about ignoring the shared universe, it's easy for me to ignore the shared universe. If I ignore it, it's easy to except the First Born as a threat to existence; he was foreshadowed in issue 1 through the oracles and then more directly in issue 12, the Source apparently told Highfather he was a threat to (and the Source) itself, Highfather sent Orion to deal with him, Poseidon shakes in his soggy boots at the mere thought of him, etc. etc. One of the ways we can tell that he's a Big Deal is the very fact that Diana puts on the army, which until now (with the exception of #0), we only saw when she went to hell, and going to hell is also a Big Deal for a hero (though on a more intimate, less global scale).

Sure, if the book ignores the shared universe (other than Orion) consistently, that raises the question of whether the book really needs to be in the shared universe, or whether it could be an elseworld. I think I will say "it needed to be in the shared universe" if other writers and artists make what I consider to be good use of Azz and Chiang's concepts and continuity points. So, ask me in a year or two.