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  1. #136
    Incredible Member Bookem Danno's Avatar
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    Too many "Huh?" moments. Lead characters not acting true to their current selves at all. Problematic reveal of Triage "bringing back" Sale. Unsatisfying conclusion. On the other hand, some of the good moments complimented in this thread rang true and some of the art was very nice.

  2. #137
    Fantastic Member victor borkowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookem Danno View Post
    Too many "Huh?" moments. Lead characters not acting true to their current selves at all. Problematic reveal of Triage "bringing back" Sale. Unsatisfying conclusion. On the other hand, some of the good moments complimented in this thread rang true and some of the art was very nice.
    . Great art as usual. And the first half of the story was good... But then the Phoenix showed up and it went downhill from there. A better ending could have been had without the Phoenix get out jail card.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    Finally got around to read this. Just... wow.

    No wonder the usual suspects are keeping quiet. That final act is a disaster of truly epic proportions, lol. Wolvie made the right call by suggesting they'd all back off and pretend it never happened.

    On a side note, Henry McCoy throwing a hissy fit over necromancy/technology being bad just might be the most hilariously insincere thing ever. What makes the furball's latest transgression even more amusing than usual is that, wait for it, he dug up corpses in a story written by Mike Carey himself, lol. Surreal.
    Then he buried each and everyone of them himself. Did any of you not get the thesis behind that miniseries? Mike Carey intended that story to be part prequel to Messiah Complex, and part character study of Hank balancing his conscience against his compulsion as a scientist to save mutants from extinction. In the end, he chose his humanity and his soul, rather than become a heartless monster, you know, like Scott chose to become the heartless mutant terrorist and compromise his soul, his ethics, and his morals for "the cause."

    Wow, there is some really big hate on for scientist characters. Hank has done more for reversing M-Day and trying to repower mutants than Scott ever did. If anything Hank was right. He was right about Scott's militant actions getting the best of him, Scott's paranoia being his undoing, and right about everyone ditching Scott because he lost his humanity instead of trusting in his friends.

  4. #139
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fod_xp View Post
    Then he buried each and everyone of them himself.
    That's no excuse for not updating his resume.

    Quote Originally Posted by fod_xp View Post
    Did any of you not get the thesis behind that miniseries?
    Of course we did. But then Marvel proceeded to totally not care and casually established Beast as an unrepentant mass-murderer. Because it's okay as long as you're using science to do it. Or something.

    Thus why we made fun of Carey's outdated take on Beast.

    It's nothing personal. We'd make fun of Doctor Strange if he committed genocide, indulged in grave-robbing and then showed up in the x-books to throw hypocritical hissy fits and/or selectively defend the use of sorcery.
    Last edited by FluffyCyclopsRLZ; 05-28-2014 at 11:44 PM.

  5. #140
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    There's also the fact that this isn't just fan-complaints, the current in-book view on Beast is that he's just this side of nuts. Basically everyone bashes him regularly. The Watcher used almost his last day of life to go find Beast and tell him how much he hated him. And it's been established that if something isn't done, his older self goes nuts and joins the brotherhood.

    That said, I actually like Beast, but he's certainly no saint currently.

    As for this book; I liked it until the ending. Not only was it a deus ex machina, but it robbed us of an interesting mystery and problem to solve. The central problem of this book was really fascinating to me, so the fact that they never solve it, the Phoenix just magically wishes it away I consider a very poor choice of ending.

    Also, I think the Schism and it's inequity was shown quite well here. The fact that Logan just sort of randomly accuses Scott while Scott does nothing but try to help and save the humans the entire time (except for one thought he isn't shown acting on) really sums up Schism in a nutshell.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaleRylan View Post
    There's also the fact that this isn't just fan-complaints, the current in-book view on Beast is that he's just this side of nuts. Basically everyone bashes him regularly. The Watcher used almost his last day of life to go find Beast and tell him how much he hated him. And it's been established that if something isn't done, his older self goes nuts and joins the brotherhood.

    That said, I actually like Beast, but he's certainly no saint currently.

    .
    It is a travesty what they have done to Beast in current state. I always enjoyed his playful, fun-loving side. I cannot help but blame Morrison for the start of his decent and all the writier's since that have kept it going. Even in the future he obviously continues to experiment on himself until he becomes a true menagerie of creatures...that does not read as a stable mind. I could see if they wrote it as something that happened after he was given the Infinity Gem and it made him go a little mental and could be reversed. The way he has acted now, I do not see how this could be corrected...

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    That's no excuse for not updating his resume.
    pfft, Hank's current updated resume is screwing over the entirety the Marvel Multiverse, I hardly think a little graverobbing matters in the grand scheme of things compared to potentially collapsing reality just to give Scott the middle finger. Priorities Fluffy, my man, priorities. Besides, his girlfriend nukes alternate realities because she doesn't understand the meaning of "overkill."

    Of course we did. But then Marvel proceeded to totally not care and casually established Beast as an unrepentant mass-murderer. Because it's okay as long as you're using science to do it. Or something.
    lol, i know right? I can't even defend my favorite characters anymore. Everything I liked about Morrison's, Whedon's, Gillen's, and Ellis' Scott Summers is long gone. Emma Frost is so broken, and Hank is a terrible person that I now subscribe to his de-evolultion secondary mutation idea.

    Thus why we made fun of Carey's outdated take on Beast.
    You have to admit, though, Mike Carey did write one heck of a great Hank.

    It's nothing personal. We'd make fun of Doctor Strange if he committed genocide, indulged in grave-robbing and then showed up in the x-books to throw hypocritical hissy fits and/or selectively defend the use of sorcery.
    Marvel's new gimmick to being "dark and edgy"- Genocide; It's What's for Dinner.

    You know, like those Rice Roni or Beef commercials?

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaleRylan View Post
    There's also the fact that this isn't just fan-complaints, the current in-book view on Beast is that he's just this side of nuts. Basically everyone bashes him regularly. The Watcher used almost his last day of life to go find Beast and tell him how much he hated him. And it's been established that if something isn't done, his older self goes nuts and joins the brotherhood.

    That said, I actually like Beast, but he's certainly no saint currently.

    As for this book; I liked it until the ending. Not only was it a deus ex machina, but it robbed us of an interesting mystery and problem to solve. The central problem of this book was really fascinating to me, so the fact that they never solve it, the Phoenix just magically wishes it away I consider a very poor choice of ending.

    Also, I think the Schism and it's inequity was shown quite well here. The fact that Logan just sort of randomly accuses Scott while Scott does nothing but try to help and save the humans the entire time (except for one thought he isn't shown acting on) really sums up Schism in a nutshell.
    You summed up my opinion on current Hank, accurately. I loved reading X-Men the most when Hank and Scott were best friends. Any X-Men comic with Scott, Emma, and Hank featured as the main cast usually had me invested enough to either buy it or keep close tabs on it because those are my three favorite X-Men. Abby Brand is my fourth favorite.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by fod_xp View Post
    You summed up my opinion on current Hank, accurately. I loved reading X-Men the most when Hank and Scott were best friends. Any X-Men comic with Scott, Emma, and Hank featured as the main cast usually had me invested enough to either buy it or keep close tabs on it because those are my three favorite X-Men. Abby Brand is my fourth favorite.
    Both Whedon and Warren Ellis used that cast brilliantly. I'm still hoping we'll get back - or move forward - to a place where they're all going on missions together again, because that was a great time for great team dynamics.

    And I don't see current Hank as a write-off; I just see him as damaged. All the traumas the X-Men have been through I think they're entitled to get a little frayed around the edges. I still think Young Hank might be the means to help Old Hank, as he did initially. And although the Watcher was pretty tough on him, it's not like Hank actively wants bad things to happen in the future or to block off good things. He certainly doesn't want Jeen hair twiddling on a throne of naked slaves or Cyke getting crucified and burned at the stake. His reasoning may have been skewed by grief and anger and depression and the pressure they've all been under since M-Day, but he wasn't trying to kill anyone when he brought the O5 forward. He was trying to find the past they've lost where he had control over his mutations and Jean was alive, Bobby hadn't been hit with the Death Seed, Warren was still Warren, and Scott was still a boy scout. His mentor had just died. He reacted. I really think his reasoning might not be morally sound but it's still something that a good man who felt desperate might do.

    Any minute now I think we're going to get hit over the head with something awful about Hank, but I'm staying over here in my denial place until then because I still love the guy he was too much - and have loved him for too many years, and particularly his friendship with Cyke - to give up on the guy he is now.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakenGirl View Post
    Both Whedon and Warren Ellis used that cast brilliantly. I'm still hoping we'll get back - or move forward - to a place where they're all going on missions together again, because that was a great time for great team dynamics.

    And I don't see current Hank as a write-off; I just see him as damaged. All the traumas the X-Men have been through I think they're entitled to get a little frayed around the edges. I still think Young Hank might be the means to help Old Hank, as he did initially. And although the Watcher was pretty tough on him, it's not like Hank actively wants bad things to happen in the future or to block off good things. He certainly doesn't want Jeen hair twiddling on a throne of naked slaves or Cyke getting crucified and burned at the stake. His reasoning may have been skewed by grief and anger and depression and the pressure they've all been under since M-Day, but he wasn't trying to kill anyone when he brought the O5 forward. He was trying to find the past they've lost where he had control over his mutations and Jean was alive, Bobby hadn't been hit with the Death Seed, Warren was still Warren, and Scott was still a boy scout. His mentor had just died. He reacted. I really think his reasoning might not be morally sound but it's still something that a good man who felt desperate might do.

    Any minute now I think we're going to get hit over the head with something awful about Hank, but I'm staying over here in my denial place until then because I still love the guy he was too much - and have loved him for too many years, and particularly his friendship with Cyke - to give up on the guy he is now.
    Well, Warren Ellis is my favorite comic book writer, so I was in heaven reading his Astonishing X-Men run. I actually liked his run better for several reasons. Both Whedon and Ellis had a good handling of that team dynamic and the overlapping characters of Scott, Emma, Logan, Hank, and Abby. Those were really great days for me, and reading X-Men comics back then was pure joy. I couldn't crack open an X-Men comic without being impressed or smiling.

  11. #146
    Fantastic Member WonderBoy's Avatar
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    Overall I enjoyed this graphic novel. I agree about the ending but I think the art more than makes up for it. It was gorgeous IMO. And it also had some great moments, like with Jean creating the cool telekinetic bubble in space to Storm flying up and decking Mags across the face. I also liked the cool end battle scene with the brotherhood and every. I'm a bit annoyed about Rachel's part and Wanda. They were both just kinda 'there' Wanda more so. I wanted both of them to get a little action. Has anyone actually seen Rachel Grey in any kind of fight recently, because i haven't and I'm wondering if I'm missing something? Last I can remember was her fighting future Xavier in 'Battle of the Atom' owning him with her mega-powering telepathy then getting koed from behind. Pretty lame and it's a shame we're not seeing her potential more!

  12. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderBoy View Post
    Overall I enjoyed this graphic novel. I agree about the ending but I think the art more than makes up for it. It was gorgeous IMO. And it also had some great moments, like with Jean creating the cool telekinetic bubble in space to Storm flying up and decking Mags across the face. I also liked the cool end battle scene with the brotherhood and every. I'm a bit annoyed about Rachel's part and Wanda. They were both just kinda 'there' Wanda more so. I wanted both of them to get a little action. Has anyone actually seen Rachel Grey in any kind of fight recently, because i haven't and I'm wondering if I'm missing something? Last I can remember was her fighting future Xavier in 'Battle of the Atom' owning him with her mega-powering telepathy then getting koed from behind. Pretty lame and it's a shame we're not seeing her potential more!




    She kinda fought, Madelyne but that ended in Maddie placing a psychic bomb in her head so don't know if that counts.

  13. #148
    Fantastic Member WonderBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    [/B]



    She kinda fought, Madelyne but that ended in Maddie placing a psychic bomb in her head so don't know if that counts.
    Oh yeah, in Wood's x-men, I remember that, but it wasn't really a fight, she didn't do much. Rachel kinda appears to be weak when she's really not. Her power needs to be shown sometime soon!

  14. #149
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fod_xp View Post
    You have to admit, though, Mike Carey did write one heck of a great Hank.
    Back in the day, arguably so. Just not in this particular book. Mostly due to Hank's baffling hypocrisy being somehow less focused than usual.

    Remember that scene in which Wolvie and Beast are totally bummed out at the prospect of the X-Men being mere peacekeepers instead of fighters? I mean, damn. Do they not remember the last year worth of continuity during which they wouldn't stop complaining about Scott being a warmongering jerk? What makes it even funnier is that Scott had already left the room to help out and play peacekeeper, lol.

  15. #150
    Mighty Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seriena View Post
    Jean and Jean chat a bit before Hank throws the switch and sends everybody into the digital storage. The zombie gets left behind, and decides he's going to destroy the entire lab (machines included). Which he does.
    Turns out the Hanks had spotted that coming, and the X-Men and Brotherhood get shunted into the space/limbo place they were in earlier.
    This part confused me a little. So Beast decides to place all mutants in a storage dimension to protect the earth from getting torched? The zombie decided to betray everybody and basically hit the self destruct switch killing everybody? In the end, the Phoenix returns everybody?

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