New 52 WonderWoman is an attempt to make Diana more appealing to a male audience? Agree or disagree?

[daBronzeBomma]

Yes, sorta. New52 Wonder Woman IS an attempt to make Diana more appealing ... to a WIDER audience.

[Primal Slayer]

Her new origin has nothing to do with making her more appealing to guys, as others said it is appeal to the general public and make her more relateable.

[Ascended]

Dont have time to read these pages, but....

I dont think anyone said "Hey, this book needs to appeal to young men more!" and then dictated to Azzarello and his editor that they use more boobs and guns.

What I do think someone said was "This book doesnt sell like it should, and hasn't for years. So what do we need to do and change in order to make it sell like we believe it can?"

If the changes that have been made appeal more to a male audience, I think it's largely coincidental and runs parallel to the efforts made to simplify, improve, and enhance Diana's book. That was the goal; higher sales, better reviews, more hype. If they've written more for a male audience its an effect, not a cause.

[Blacksun]

To have WW more mainstream they could have done what Mark doyle did with batgirl with the new creative team.
I think they were just out of ideas and a award winner like Azz could be nice.

[Flash Gordon]

To have WW more mainstream they could have done what Mark doyle did with batgirl with the new creative team.
I think they were just out of ideas and a award winner like Azz could be nice.

Wonder Woman is a grown woman and would not fit that tone at all.

[Justice Prince]

I think a lot of the main changes were clearly made for that purpose. We can't have a symbol of female empowerment and independence they would be to scary to the fragile male ego. Lets take away everything that that symbolism is built upon. Powers from the goddesses we can't have that how about she gets them from Zeus. Learning yo fight from a bunch of girls? No way how about Ares the guy who's always been her arch enemy teaches her instead. And she learned her strong moral character from these women too? I'm pretty sure our fans would like it more if these woman were a bunch of savages, and Wonder Woman didn't learn how to be good hero till she escaped that mess.

[My Two Cents]

The reasons why D C decided to allow the big changes to Wonder Woman's origin and the tweaks in how she is allowed to behave in the New 52
are reasons only a few at D C really know.
I think in the end, it really came down to them just figuring "why Not"?
Why, not and if it don't work (or even if it did) they could (and probably will some day) just change her again when they feel a change is needed to
boost her (and D C Comics) sales and appeal.

[Blacksun]

Wonder Woman is a grown woman and would not fit that tone at all.

WW is only two years older than Batgirl

[Star-Lord]

Only complains I've read about the new Wondie are from males, so eh. Disagree.

[chlj1]

I think a lot of the main changes were clearly made for that purpose. We can't have a symbol of female empowerment and independence they would be to scary to the fragile male ego. Lets take away everything that that symbolism is built upon. Powers from the goddesses we can't have that how about she gets them from Zeus. Learning yo fight from a bunch of girls? No way how about Ares the guy who's always been her arch enemy teaches her instead. And she learned her strong moral character from these women too? I'm pretty sure our fans would like it more if these woman were a bunch of savages, and Wonder Woman didn't learn how to be good hero till she escaped that mess.

I agree with you!! DC and Azz. did change WW too get her away from being a symbol of female empowerment!! Everything you listed above was done to distance her from that image!! But one thing wasn't listed, Azz. wanted to pair WW with a guy that sexually harasses her, has no respect for women, calls her by a bodypart " leg"!! This was done to clearly appeal to young men that have little too no respect for women, by having a guy that would demeaned and degraded WW! She couldn't be paired with a man that was kind too her, respected her as woman and treated her as a equal. I think this was done too drive away female fans and male fans that think women should be treated with respect.

[Silvanus]

I agree with you!! DC and Azz. did change WW too get her away from being a symbol of female empowerment!! Everything you listed above was done to distance her from that image!! But one thing wasn't listed, Azz. wanted to pair WW with a guy that sexually harasses her, has no respect for women, calls her by a bodypart " leg"!!

We don't know, though, whether Azz would have portrayed Orion in the same way if he had gotten the green light to put the two characters in a relationship. Orion would probably have had to mend his ways at least somewhat if that were going to happen.

This was done to clearly appeal to young men that have little too no respect for women, by having a guy that would demeaned and degraded WW!

Would those direspectful young male readers have enjoyed issue 19, though? I would think that a reader with no respect for women would want to see that Orion was able to charm and Wonder Woman without respecting her--or at least that he was able to escape her grasp without being hurt or embarrassed. I doubt such a guy would want to picture himself getting manhandled (so to speak), having his masculinity threatened in a very direct way, getting mocked by onlookers, and leaving red-faced. If anything, I thought that the scene might have been targeted at masculinity who have been harassed, bullied or just treated rudely and might have enjoyed a fantasy about responding in a way we couldn't (and shouldn't) respond in real life.

Similarly, I don't think the target readers you're imagining would have enjoyed Orion's embarrassment in 22, when his father bullied him and Wonder Woman saw his true face. Perhaps these readers might have liked, and in an ideal world even learned something from , Diana's understanding response; but that's good, right? I think it's great if disrespectful young men read Wonder Woman and learn something about why and how to respect women.

Finally, would this supposed target audience have enjoyed seeing Orion get smacked down by Hera a couple of months ago? I think they'd once again have seen their stand-in getting a lesson in the importance of treating women with respect.

I admit that it might be nice to see some follow up on the scene in 34 where Hippolyta is taken aback when she hears Diana called legs. Let Hippolyta give this punk a piece of her mind. But there may not be room for it.

I think this was done too drive away female fans and male fans that think women should be treated with respect.

I'm sure DC accidentally drives away all kinds of readers all the time; but are you saying that they actually meant to drive away women and respectful men? Why would they want to do that? Don't they like money?

[chlj1]

We don't know, though, whether Azz would have portrayed Orion in the same way if he had gotten the green light to put the two characters in a relationship. Orion would probably have had to mend his ways at least somewhat if that were going to happen.



Would those direspectful young male readers have enjoyed issue 19, though? I would think that a reader with no respect for women would want to see that Orion was able to charm and Wonder Woman without respecting her--or at least that he was able to escape her grasp without being hurt or embarrassed. I doubt such a guy would want to picture himself getting manhandled (so to speak), having his masculinity threatened in a very direct way, getting mocked by onlookers, and leaving red-faced. If anything, I thought that the scene might have been targeted at masculinity who have been harassed, bullied or just treated rudely and might have enjoyed a fantasy about responding in a way we couldn't (and shouldn't) respond in real life.

Similarly, I don't think the target readers you're imagining would have enjoyed Orion's embarrassment in 22, when his father bullied him and Wonder Woman saw his true face. Perhaps these readers might have liked, and in an ideal world even learned something from , Diana's understanding response; but that's good, right? I think it's great if disrespectful young men read Wonder Woman and learn something about why and how to respect women.

Finally, would this supposed target audience have enjoyed seeing Orion get smacked down by Hera a couple of months ago? I think they'd once again have seen their stand-in getting a lesson in the importance of treating women with respect.

I admit that it might be nice to see some follow up on the scene in 34 where Hippolyta is taken aback when she hears Diana called legs. Let Hippolyta give this punk a piece of her mind. But there may not be room for it.



I'm sure DC accidentally drives away all kinds of readers all the time; but are you saying that they actually meant to drive away women and respectful men? Why would they want to do that? Don't they like money?

I can't say I disagree!! You made a lot of good points!! But I still have a problem with the way Azz. portrayed Orion, if he wanted too pair them together as a couple! I have a big problem with the man that sexually harasses a woman and show little too no respect for women, than turning around and having that same man become her love interest!! There no excuses for Orion behavior!! I thought it was insulting to WW and the fans!!

I will go this far an say, I will admit i'm a WW/SM fan, but if and when their relationship end, I don't have a problem with her going back to Steve, or having any of her fellow male heroes, or a newly created character as a love interest. While I wouldn't follow those relationships the way I've followed the WW/SM relationship. I would pick up a WW comic book from time to time to see how her new relationship is going. But if WW ever got together with Orion, I would never pick up another WW comic as long as she's with him!!! Orion being in her comics acting the way he was, then Azz. hinting he wanted to turn around and made Orion her love interest, it really turned me off, it's one of the biggest reasons I dropped her solo comic. I thought it was disgusting and very disrespectful toward WW.

[Razor Tiara]

I think a lot of the main changes were clearly made for that purpose. We can't have a symbol of female empowerment and independence they would be to scary to the fragile male ego. Lets take away everything that that symbolism is built upon. Powers from the goddesses we can't have that how about she gets them from Zeus. Learning yo fight from a bunch of girls? No way how about Ares the guy who's always been her arch enemy teaches her instead. And she learned her strong moral character from these women too? I'm pretty sure our fans would like it more if these woman were a bunch of savages, and Wonder Woman didn't learn how to be good hero till she escaped that mess.

Exactly. I don't understand how anyone could ignore the fact or refuse to see it. It's so obvious.

[Justice Prince]

I agree with you!! DC and Azz. did change WW too get her away from being a symbol of female empowerment!! Everything you listed above was done to distance her from that image!! But one thing wasn't listed, Azz. wanted to pair WW with a guy that sexually harasses her, has no respect for women, calls her by a bodypart " leg"!! This was done to clearly appeal to young men that have little too no respect for women, by having a guy that would demeaned and degraded WW! She couldn't be paired with a man that was kind too her, respected her as woman and treated her as a equal. I think this was done too drive away female fans and male fans that think women should be treated with respect.

Well I don't think they would do anything with the intent of driving away a demographic of fans. For sure though they were more concerned with getting new fans then they were with keeping old ones. You could say that about a few other DC properties as well though.

[Flash Gordon]

WW is only two years older than Batgirl

BATGIRL as a concept is totally different from WONDER WOMAN tonally. It doesn't matter how "old" the character is in story.