Grant Morrison's New X-Men

[grinningdemon]

"
you should really never qualify things this way. if i think it, it's my opinion. my opinion has less offensive implications.

I unfortunately feel the need to qualify things this way more and more because otherwise certain people around here go ballistic because they act as though I'm representing my opinion as fact...and I still don't see how anything I said is offensive...I actually find Morrison's run itself offensive but I am not offended when others like it.

[Kisinith]

Morrisons run is equally brilliant and terrible, it was imaginative, interesting and fresh (good things) at the same time almost every one appearing was significantly out of character. If it were written as an Ultimate style or what if I would applaud it immensely as probably the best since Claremont in his prime. In continuity I hated it and actually view it as worse than Austen's garbage. He wrote things were downright offensive if you cared about the characters. As an example he had Magneto a holocaust survivor, throwing ordinary humans into ovens...

The biggest problem I have with it is that he broke all of the toys when he was done. Its one thing to want to put a personal stamp on things or shake up the status quo but he went out of his way to destroy it and what was left when he was done was unrecognizable. I find it telling that his seat wasn't even warm after leaving before they started retconning (badly) his crap out of existence.

[gurkle]

He wrote things were downright offensive if you cared about the characters. As an example he had Magneto a holocaust survivor, throwing ordinary humans into ovens...

Isn't that kind of the point of it though? Just because Magneto is a Holocaust survivor doesn't mean he can't be a Hitler-like genocidal maniac.

Obviously Morrison's Hitler comparison was kind of a mean take-that to Claremont (British writers really seem to have a love-hate relationship with Claremont; they were all influenced by him, but they don't really respect him much). But I do think some writers go too far with the idea that because Magneto has been persecuted, that means he can't be an evil racist. Morrison was kind of pulling a John Byrne here and saying that the original version of the character - the Magneto who existed before X-Men #150 - is the "real" Magneto.

I'm not saying that Magneto should have been left like that. Unlike Morrison, most writers seem to prefer the post-X-Men-150 Magneto and see him as something more than just a racist killer, so it's legitimate to change him back (though the way they did it was really clumsy). But we do tend to forget how long it was before Magneto started getting that kind of complexity and the Holocaust-survivor background. It's not surprising that Morrison, whose favorite X-Men stories were before X-Men #150, would have less interest in that later Magneto.

[grinningdemon]

Morrisons run is equally brilliant and terrible, it was imaginative, interesting and fresh (good things) at the same time almost every one appearing was significantly out of character. If it were written as an Ultimate style or what if I would applaud it immensely as probably the best since Claremont in his prime. In continuity I hated it and actually view it as worse than Austen's garbage. He wrote things were downright offensive if you cared about the characters. As an example he had Magneto a holocaust survivor, throwing ordinary humans into ovens...

The biggest problem I have with it is that he broke all of the toys when he was done. Its one thing to want to put a personal stamp on things or shake up the status quo but he went out of his way to destroy it and what was left when he was done was unrecognizable. I find it telling that his seat wasn't even warm after leaving before they started retconning (badly) his crap out of existence.

Right there with you.

[anthony_lynch15]

Morrisons run is equally brilliant and terrible, it was imaginative, interesting and fresh (good things) at the same time almost every one appearing was significantly out of character. If it were written as an Ultimate style or what if I would applaud it immensely as probably the best since Claremont in his prime. In continuity I hated it and actually view it as worse than Austen's garbage. He wrote things were downright offensive if you cared about the characters. As an example he had Magneto a holocaust survivor, throwing ordinary humans into ovens...

It's strange, because I didn't find the characters in Morrison's run to be acting that out of character.
Maybe it's because most of their changes in behaviour were actually explained and so I accepted it more readily than it just happening.
Or maybe it was because I enjoyed the new direction a lot.
Those last few arcs were awful though, so so awful.

The biggest problem I have with it is that he broke all of the toys when he was done. Its one thing to want to put a personal stamp on things or shake up the status quo but he went out of his way to destroy it and what was left when he was done was unrecognizable. I find it telling that his seat wasn't even warm after leaving before they started retconning (badly) his crap out of existence.

This is my problem with everything Morrison does. He creates some fresh characters and ideas then demolishes them before he leaves.

[scusemeprincess]

I unfortunately feel the need to qualify things this way more and more because otherwise certain people around here go ballistic because they act as though I'm representing my opinion as fact...and I still don't see how anything I said is offensive...I actually find Morrison's run itself offensive but I am not offended when others like it.

you just think liking it correlates a bit with not being a long time xmen fan who has kept up with characterization all along.
as one of the multitude who don't apply to that, it's an irksome position to take.

[grinningdemon]

you just think liking it correlates a bit with not being a long time xmen fan who has kept up with characterization all along.
as one of the multitude who don't apply to that, it's an irksome position to take.

As I said, you may be an exception...but I think "multitude" is overstating things...but I still don't see how classic fans or new readers are somehow insulting categories...I know numerous people who never bothered with the X-Men until Morrison's run (many of them never bothered with it again afterwards) and numerous people who dropped the books when Claremont left or shortly after and only returned for Morrison's run...but I have rarely heard people speak about loving this run that were reading the books throughout...and I've lost count of how many debates I've gotten into with people over this run (it tends to be rather polarizing).

[scusemeprincess]

As I said, you may be an exception...but I think "multitude" is overstating things...but I still don't see how classic fans or new readers are somehow insulting categories...I know numerous people who never bothered with the X-Men until Morrison's run (many of them never bothered with it again afterwards) and numerous people who dropped the books when Claremont left or shortly after and only returned for Morrison's run...but I have rarely heard people speak about loving this run that were reading the books throughout...and I've lost count of how many debates I've gotten into with people over this run (it tends to be rather polarizing).

that's not rare, just a heads up.

[grinningdemon]

It's strange, because I didn't find the characters in Morrison's run to be acting that out of character.
Maybe it's because most of their changes in behaviour were actually explained and so I accepted it more readily than it just happening.
Or maybe it was because I enjoyed the new direction a lot.
Those last few arcs were awful though, so so awful.

I didn't care for the new direction and didn't think any of the character changes were given believable explanations...Cyclops, for instance, was reacting to his Apocalypse merger in a completely different way (a more interesting way, actually) before Morrison took over and just ignored the previous take...and virtually all of the characters came off looking bad by the end of the run...just didn't work for me at all.

This is my problem with everything Morrison does. He creates some fresh characters and ideas then demolishes them before he leaves.

I agree with you to an extent but I think Morrison tends to take things too far just because he can...I know there was some editorial influence on his X-Men run but he was certainly allowed to do things no other writer up to that point would have been allowed to do and it seems like he's pretty much gotten free reign to do whatever he wanted on everything since...I really liked his earlier work (like JLA or Animal Man) when the editors clearly reigned him in a little more...I think it produced better results.

[grinningdemon]

that's not rare, just a heads up.

Well, the other two groups certainly aren't rare and I guess they seem to be better represented...although perhaps I should further qualify that and say I have rarely heard people speak of their love that run that were reading (and more or less enjoying) the books throughout.

[anthony_lynch15]

I didn't care for the new direction and didn't think any of the character changes were given believable explanations...Cyclops, for instance, was reacting to his Apocalypse merger in a completely different way (a more interesting way, actually) before Morrison took over and just ignored the previous take...and virtually all of the characters came off looking bad by the end of the run...just didn't work for me at all.

Fair enough, always good to hear other peoples thoughts on a run.
And extra nice when any negative thoughts about a comic are well thought out like yours.

I agree with you to an extent but I think Morrison tends to take things too far just because he can...I know there was some editorial influence on his X-Men run but he was certainly allowed to do things no other writer up to that point would have been allowed to do and it seems like he's pretty much gotten free reign to do whatever he wanted on everything since...I really liked his earlier work (like JLA or Animal Man) when the editors clearly reigned him in a little more...I think it produced better results.

Oh don't get me wrong.
I think he comes up with fresh character and fresh ideas, but he also comes in with a lot of messed up weird and stupid crap as well.
The last few arcs of his X-Men run and an absolute ton of his Batman stuff spring to mind.
I just mean that the good stuff he brings he usually demolishes before he goes.

PS. Agree about his JLA run. It was my first proper comic introduction to the DC Universe, and it's still one of my all time favourite comic runs. Stellar work.

[sprior93]

He gave us this guy.....



Read the damn book!

[grinningdemon]

Fair enough, always good to hear other peoples thoughts on a run.
And extra nice when any negative thoughts about a comic are well thought out like yours.

I appreciate the sentiment...seems like a lot of these discussions, especially over such polarizing topics as Morrison's X-Men run (or the events therein) just turn into a hate fest with people slinging insults back and forth.

Oh don't get me wrong.
I think he comes up with fresh character and fresh ideas, but he also comes in with a lot of messed up weird and stupid crap as well.
The last few arcs of his X-Men run and an absolute ton of his Batman stuff spring to mind.
I just mean that the good stuff he brings he usually demolishes before he goes.

Morrison is one of, if not THE, most imaginative writers in comics when it comes to ideas and plotlines...I just don't think he's ever been good with maintaining pre-existing characterization...if he creates a character (or recreates them) then he does great...otherwise, he stumbles as I believe he did here.

PS. Agree about his JLA run. It was my first proper comic introduction to the DC Universe, and it's still one of my all time favourite comic runs. Stellar work.

Absolutely...prior to his JLA run, I only picked up the occasional Batman or Superman story but he really made me a hardcore DC fan (until they lost me with the New 52)...part of the reason I think that run worked so well was that, because almost all of the characters had their own books, he didn't go for character development and played to his strengths by making it very story driven...if he'd taken that approach to X-Men, I might have liked his run a great deal but that would also be a double edged sword since most of the characters did NOT have their own books.

[vitamin]

He gave us this guy.....



Read the damn book!

It also educates about safe sex

[Captain Buttocks]

Thanks for expanding on your points grinningdemon - I dont have time to address them, but it's all good stuff (even if I disagree!)

Anyhoo - I still think Marvel missed a trick by not having an X-Corp spin-off...