Bruno Heller: "'Gotham' Will Surpass the Batman Movies" Visually

[Lightsabretooth]

And only people who read comics think like that or even care. The audience didn't have a problem with the Joker getting an origin in Burton's Batman and they won't have a problem with it on Gotham.

Probably because he was an adult and his origin made sense. Kid Joker is about the worst idea I've heard in a very long time. Ok, I was wrong, kid Batman palling around with kid Catwoman is actually even worse.

[twincast]

I read this and wonder why Gotham Central wasn't the show they made instead.

Apparently because it would be "kind of mean" to not show any Batfamily heroes. Obviously ignoring that since the TV guys are now reportedly finally allowed to use different live-action portrayals of the same characters on the small and big screens at the same time, they wouldn't have to use the same actors, making it way cheaper and therefore perfectly doable to have one or two of them drop by every few episodes.

By taking a mystery-based story arc that spanned five seasons and was the backbone of the show and completely destroying it with an ending that made absolutely no sense given the clues from the previous seasons and embarrassed both the characters and the audience.

It wasn't even that the guy Red John turned out to be wasn't who I wanted it to be, but it was somebody who it couldn't even be given the evidence, and the finale was handled poorly so that Heller could "reinvent" the show into something barely anybody watches anymore.

In short, he lost interest and gave fans the biggest botched mystery finale in years.

Well, at least of the people on "the list" he was the obvious choice. Kirkland and later Haffner, while good suspects, were clearly red herrings from a meta/viewer's perspective, Smith just didn't fit, Bertram not quite either, and Partridge? Well, Partridge would've been great, but he got stricken off said list rather quickly. I can't really think of any reason why McAllister wouldn't fit to be honest.

As far as OOC-ness goes, I was utterly baffled that Stiles was even on Jane's list, and that he wanted to find out who Red John was to boot, totally ignoring the established facts that he was too old and too known to be the farm kid and that he most likely knew who Red John was and was protecting him like a father. Also, suddenly raising Visualize's creepiness from an underlying level of discomfort to B-movie horror levels was utterly laughable in a painful way.

What pissed me off about the whole end of the Red John arc, however, was that they pulled the "Blake Association" as another level of his network out of their collective arses (and practically stuffed it back in right after) and made Bertram a monster for no reason other than pure shock value.

[Joker]

Apparently because it would be "kind of mean" to not show any Batfamily heroes. Obviously ignoring that since the TV guys are now reportedly finally allowed to use different live-action portrayals of the same characters on the small and big screens at the same time, they wouldn't have to use the same actors, making it way cheaper and therefore perfectly doable to have one or two of them drop by every few episodes.

During the last arc of the season you see Batman from the perspective of the cops. Just like in the comics. The rest of the season it's from the perspective of the cops. The villains are still there. It's basically the exact same show they're making, but not stupid.

[kalorama]

Probably because he was an adult and his origin made sense. Kid Joker is about the worst idea I've heard in a very long time. Ok, I was wrong, kid Batman palling around with kid Catwoman is actually even worse.

Where does it say anything about Joker being a "kid"?

[twincast]

During the last arc of the season you see Batman from the perspective of the cops. Just like in the comics. The rest of the season it's from the perspective of the cops. The villains are still there. It's basically the exact same show they're making, but not stupid.

You seem to be confusing Heller's argument as mine? (Although I would in fact throw viewers a bat-bone from time to time.)

[Joker]

No argument, just talking through my lack of understanding for why Gotham Central wasn't the better idea.

[sonofspam1972]

I read this and wonder why Gotham Central wasn't the show they made instead.

I feel like you didn't read the interview very well.

[Ebon]

I'll check it out, but to me it doesn't matter how much production value they throw at this thing, how good the cast is and how good the writing is: a Gotham show without Batman and Robin is just second-rate at the very best. Who knows, maybe it'll be so amazing that it'll make me eat my words, but it just seems like Smallville all over again. There are dozens of ways they could make a good show with the heroes we know and not break the bank - you need the costumes and some stunt effects, something Arrow is pulling off for multiple costumed people per episode on maybe half the money. Maybe they'll wise up and Season Two will start off 'Ten Year Later.....' and pan up to a Bat-Signal in the sky over Gotham.

[Lightsabretooth]

Where does it say anything about Joker being a "kid"?

He's roughly the same age as Bruce, is he not? If he's much older that makes Batman kicking his old ass constantly pretty sad and pathetic. Not to mention he shouldn't really even show up before Batman does.

[Kurosawa]

Bleh to the blehest of blehness.

[kalorama]

He's roughly the same age as Bruce, is he not?

Sez who? By virtue of the fact that we don't know anything about him before he became the Joker, we also don't know how old he is. For what it's worth, however, in the comics he's always been portrayed as a contemporary of Penguin and Riddler, both of whom are in the show and both of whom are older that Bruce.

If he's much older that makes Batman kicking his old ass constantly pretty sad and pathetic.

This was a weak argument when people started trotting it out a couple months ago when the show was first announced, and it's gotten weaker with each passing day. Bruce is 12, which means that if Joker (or Riddler, or Penguin) are 19-22 (which appears to be the case with the latter two) then, by definition, that aren't that much older than Bruce, and certainly not so much older that when Bruce becomes Batman in his mid-to-late 20s, that they'll need walkers and day nurses.

Not to mention he shouldn't really even show up before Batman does.

And, again . . . sez who?

[marshal99]

Bruno Heller is a good showrunner. His Rome and Mentalist series are all mostly well written and has good production values.

Essentially , he's going to tell a detective story set in a fictional city in a superhero universe set before the rise of the superheroes.

[sonofspam1972]

It's obviously not gonna have Batman kicking a bunch of old geezers around.

But obviously that is what would happen if Bruce Wayne grew up to be an adult in this series (which will obviously never happen)

[PretenderNX01]

Probably because he was an adult and his origin made sense. Kid Joker is about the worst idea I've heard in a very long time. Ok, I was wrong, kid Batman palling around with kid Catwoman is actually even worse.

Who said anything about Joker being a kid in this series? All I want is the source for this.

He's roughly the same age as Bruce, is he not? If he's much older that makes Batman kicking his old ass constantly pretty sad and pathetic. Not to mention he shouldn't really even show up before Batman does.

Well, no one knows his age in the comics. He could be older, younger, somewhat superpowered or not at all. Jack Nicholson is 15 years older than Michael Keaton while Heath Ledger was 5 years younger than Christian Bale.

For real. They could still have Catwoman, Penguin and all in it, but leave Batman as unseen presence like the president in Veep.

You'd then have people crying it's a show with Batman that won't show Batman. I actually think he makes a good argument against that by looking at SHIELD's haters:
"Not to comment on 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.,' but [the S.H.I.E.L.D. agents] are in the same temporal space as their superheroes," Heller said. "So while watching it, I imagine you feel, well, it’s kind of mean not to show us Thor. If Thor is there in the next room, or the next town, why not come by and see us?"

So the eliminate that by not having Batman exist yet:
"But look: Most stories that people tell don’t have Batman in them. You've just got to make the story you tell as compelling as it can be."

[Mobh]

It looks pretty gimmicky. A show about Gordon sounds fine, but do we really need kid versions of famous Batman villains? Meh.