Hal Jordan Appreciation

[HAN9000]

I think this is likely more of an editorial thing than Venditti, because it always feels out of place. It's doing a disservice to the character not just because it needlessly sours other fans on him, but also because it completely mischaracterizes him. Hal doesn't care about titles or monikers, he doesn't do this for fame and glory, he's doing it because he wants to help innocent people in need. Obviously Hal is anything but humble, he know how good he is, he may be a show off at times, he's had moments where he got too confident(and paid dearly for it), but he's not doing this to be seen as "the greatest". In fact a lot of Hal's great personal qualities as a kind, compassionate and determined individual often get overlooked because of the notion DC created that he's this overly confident guy who always manages to win no matter what, hence he must be "the greatest". That's the reason some people who've only seen the character outside of comics think he's this arrogant guy with no substance. And why wouldn't they think so, when this is how DC has portrayed him over the years. What would the audience think of a character who says "Green Lantern kicks Superman's ass and TMZ's got the video". Hal deserves better than that.

I don't think it's an editorial thing. Since EVS said that editorially HJGLC is Hal's book. It's only Venditti wants to play diplomacy and make it become a book with four leading characters.
I agree with the rest.

[silly]

"Hal and Pals"

[HAN9000]

Well, if they weren't a fan of Hal, they'd probably not buy a comic titled "Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps". But wiseassery aside, this greatest of all time schitt has to stop. They really are whittling down the fanbase to just Hal's fans. If he really was the greatest, why can't John cut him some slack and give him a hour to talk to Carol? From what I've seen, if Hal is the greatest, then the rest of the Corps must be dogsh*t. All they ever do is say it. It's like Trump with a ring. Nobody is better at being a Green Lantern than me. All the problems in the universe were created by Abin Sur. Folks, you are so lucky that I have the ring now, because I'm the greatest. The more I say it, the more it becomes true.

The truth is, Hal's fans are the most whittled down now. Let us think about some questions. Is it wrong that Hal's fans want to see him great? Is it wrong Hal, the biggest contributor character to Green Lantern franchise, who was granted the greatest Green Lantern in Silver age, keep that title?
Just like you said he was portrayed poorly in this book. And that was done purposely. Why John didn't give him an hour to talk to Carol? Because that's just a way to show John outranks, overshadows Hal.
I bet letting Hal say to Kyle "you're the greatest Lantern in my opinion" is just another move to attenuate that "greatest Green Lantern" title.
I just think Hal's fans are too considerate. The writer is squeezing Hal to please others. Yet everyone seems believe Hal is the oppressor gets everything.

[jbmasta]

The truth is, Hal's fans are the most whittled down now. Let us think about some questions. Is it wrong that Hal's fans want to see him great? Is it wrong Hal, the biggest contributor character to Green Lantern franchise, who was granted the greatest Green Lantern in Silver age, keep that title?
Just like you said he was portrayed poorly in this book. And that was done purposely. Why John didn't give him an hour to talk to Carol? Because that's just a way to show John outranks, overshadows Hal.
I bet letting Hal say to Kyle "you're the greatest Lantern in my opinion" is just another move to attenuate that "greatest Green Lantern" title.
I just think Hal's fans are too considerate. The writer is squeezing Hal to please others. Yet everyone seems believe Hal is the oppressor gets everything.

I don't think writers need to come out and say that Hal is the Greatest Lantern. It should show in their actions. During the Fall of the Gods arc Kyle has to put all his concentration on maintaining the construct keeping Orion alive, and at the end when the threat is gone Orion, fully healed, stands at the bedside of an exhausted and sleeping Kyle pledging a favor to him in thanks. The enormity of the Kyle's achievement and the reward he's been given because of it aren't overstated, and the magnitude is all the more effective for it. Unlike Hal's Big Damn Heroes moment in the finale (I get that it's Hal's style, but not everything needs to be broadcast) Kyle doesn't make a big deal about it He asks if keeping Orion sans heart going is possible and is willing to do it, in the face of fear, doubt and Guy's teasing about needing the bathroom.

[liwanag]

[HAN9000]

I don't think writers need to come out and say that Hal is the Greatest Lantern. It should show in their actions. During the Fall of the Gods arc Kyle has to put all his concentration on maintaining the construct keeping Orion alive, and at the end when the threat is gone Orion, fully healed, stands at the bedside of an exhausted and sleeping Kyle pledging a favor to him in thanks. The enormity of the Kyle's achievement and the reward he's been given because of it aren't overstated, and the magnitude is all the more effective for it. Unlike Hal's Big Damn Heroes moment in the finale (I get that it's Hal's style, but not everything needs to be broadcast) Kyle doesn't make a big deal about it He asks if keeping Orion sans heart going is possible and is willing to do it, in the face of fear, doubt and Guy's teasing about needing the bathroom.

I agree. That title was never a sticker on Hal's head under Johns' run. But what Hal did were truly convincing.
In my heart, the most exciting moment isn't Hal one shot Krona or summoned Nekron, but the whole Coast City lit up for him during Sinestro Corps War.
The problem is, Venditti only writes some dumb stories with a lot of slogans to show heroism now, while insidiously doubting Hal being the greatest Green Lantern. In a word, we have neither good show nor the definite name.

[AimToTheStar]

classic!!!

[Elmo]

I think at some point Hal should undergo a DKSA-esque change where he doesn't need a ring and becomes a being made of living willpower. He could absorb Oa's central power battery and become the conduit for the energy that powers the Corps

I always found that Dark Knight Strikes Again despite being a hokey book had the best ending for Hal Jordan

[Anthony Shaw]

The truth is, Hal's fans are the most whittled down now. Let us think about some questions. Is it wrong that Hal's fans want to see him great? Is it wrong Hal, the biggest contributor character to Green Lantern franchise, who was granted the greatest Green Lantern in Silver age, keep that title?
Just like you said he was portrayed poorly in this book. And that was done purposely. Why John didn't give him an hour to talk to Carol? Because that's just a way to show John outranks, overshadows Hal.
I bet letting Hal say to Kyle "you're the greatest Lantern in my opinion" is just another move to attenuate that "greatest Green Lantern" title.
I just think Hal's fans are too considerate. The writer is squeezing Hal to please others. Yet everyone seems believe Hal is the oppressor gets everything.

This may not be great example, but Hal will side-step John to follow his own agenda.



This is my opinion, but perhaps Hal was not ready to talk with Carol. Hal was uncharacteristically procrastinating before John C-Blocked him.

Guy is not about to wait on John in the current arc, either.

These guys are long-time friends, and it can be tough distinguishing the line between friendship & professionalism.

[Anthony Shaw]

Knee pads.....

[Anthony Shaw]

I think at some point Hal should undergo a DKSA-esque change where he doesn't need a ring and becomes a being made of living willpower. He could absorb Oa's central power battery and become the conduit for the energy that powers the Corps

I always found that Dark Knight Strikes Again despite being a hokey book had the best ending for Hal Jordan

I can't help but wonder if that is the direction Hal is going in. He has this uncanny ability to harness insane amounts of will. Kyle is often portrayed as the "special one", but he's on the verge of being overwhelmed by Hal's ring. Kyle's experiencing an Ion-like power boost and personality with the ring while Hal wears it like normal bling.

He may already be at Parallax levels now, and not telling anyone.

I could be wrong, but we'll see.

[Margaret]

I think this is likely more of an editorial thing than Venditti, because it always feels out of place. It's doing a disservice to the character not just because it needlessly sours other fans on him, but also because it completely mischaracterizes him. Hal doesn't care about titles or monikers, he doesn't do this for fame and glory, he's doing it because he wants to help innocent people in need. Obviously Hal is anything but humble, he know how good he is, he may be a show off at times, he's had moments where he got too confident(and paid dearly for it), but he's not doing this to be seen as "the greatest". In fact a lot of Hal's great personal qualities as a kind, compassionate and determined individual often get overlooked because of the notion DC created that he's this overly confident guy who always manages to win no matter what, hence he must be "the greatest". That's the reason some people who've only seen the character outside of comics think he's this arrogant guy with no substance. And why wouldn't they think so, when this is how DC has portrayed him over the years. What would the audience think of a character who says "Green Lantern kicks Superman's ass and TMZ's got the video". Hal deserves better than that.

Agree whole-heartedly, but I think Venditti should share some responsibilities as well. Right from the New 52 until now he's been showing Hal in a relatively bad light despite keeping on with the "Greatest GL" thing. Under his penmanship, Hal constantly makes bad decisions, gets criticized by other characters, tries to sacrifice himself in an attempt to makes things better which ultimately amounts to nothing and benefits no one. The only remotely clever things Hal's ever said in his dialogue are very few and far between. I may be too harsh, but I think Venditti's Hal is a bit of a fool, albeit with an abundance of heroism.

[AngryComicBookNerd]

The truth is, Hal's fans are the most whittled down now. Let us think about some questions. Is it wrong that Hal's fans want to see him great? Is it wrong Hal, the biggest contributor character to Green Lantern franchise, who was granted the greatest Green Lantern in Silver age, keep that title?
Just like you said he was portrayed poorly in this book. And that was done purposely. Why John didn't give him an hour to talk to Carol? Because that's just a way to show John outranks, overshadows Hal.
I bet letting Hal say to Kyle "you're the greatest Lantern in my opinion" is just another move to attenuate that "greatest Green Lantern" title.
I just think Hal's fans are too considerate. The writer is squeezing Hal to please others. Yet everyone seems believe Hal is the oppressor gets everything.

This is true and I remember hearing something about this when the series started about showcasing "all" the lanterns. Although all really means just the 4 dudes. I should've known then that this would end poorly. Whatever perspective you look at, if you were a Kyle fan you would complain that he's pushed aside to make room for Hal. If you're a Hal fan, you complain that he doesn't get any characterization because he has to make room for the other lanterns. The end result is a book that isn't going anywhere. Everything comes and goes then reset and do it again.

[Anthony Shaw]

Agree whole-heartedly, but I think Venditti should share some responsibilities as well. Right from the New 52 until now he's been showing Hal in a relatively bad light despite keeping on with the "Greatest GL" thing. Under his penmanship, Hal constantly makes bad decisions, gets criticized by other characters, tries to sacrifice himself in an attempt to makes things better which ultimately amounts to nothing and benefits no one. The only remotely clever things Hal's ever said in his dialogue are very few and far between. I may be too harsh, but I think Venditti's Hal is a bit of a fool, albeit with an abundance of heroism.

IMO, I think that was how Geoff wrote Hal. The character flaws are more obvious now because the action is not as riveting. I kept thinking RV was doing this to move Hal away from that characterization.

Hal seems to be stuck in amber, character-wise.

Having more guts than brains works for Guy, not Hal, imo.

[Anthony Shaw]

This is true and I remember hearing something about this when the series started about showcasing "all" the lanterns. Although all really means just the 4 dudes. I should've known then that this would end poorly. Whatever perspective you look at, if you were a Kyle fan you would complain that he's pushed aside to make room for Hal. If you're a Hal fan, you complain that he doesn't get any characterization because he has to make room for the other lanterns. The end result is a book that isn't going anywhere. Everything comes and goes then reset and do it again.

RV is not that great at fully exploiting an ensemble cast. I honestly think the book could work better. I think the editor shares some of the blame, too.