Could a METROPOLIS tv show work?

[kidstandout]

With all that said I think Batman series would probably be a little more practical than a Superman show. While I still think today's tv effects and costumes are not too shabby even on one of the big three's budget (even moreso on cable), Batman would require less effects with more a street level setting.

But man a Superman show on TNT or AMC or something? That would be orgasmic.

true, could you imagine supes taking on lex, bizarro, zod ect every week!

[dupersuper]

Smallville got 10 years...

[Mr. Mastermind]

It could work, but I would in no way look forward to actually watching it.

Smallville covered a lot of that ground, considering like 4 seasons took place in Metropolis. It's way too soon for yet another Superman show, especially with Superman movies going on right now.

On a sorta unrelated note, I really hate the Smallville approach both Gotham is taking. Batman knowing Catwoman as a teenager is stupid, just like every single Superman character under the sun knowing Clark before he was Superman was stupid.

Superman and Batman are characters that operate in big, expansive worlds and shrinking them down so that every super powered in said universe already knows each other and has a deep history with others makes the world feel contrived, small and dumb instead of big and full of possibilites (aka the appeal of superhero worlds).

So if a potential Metropolis show was to take that approach, I wouldn't like it either. Just having a Lois Lane show would be fine once the movies wrap up.

[misslane]

On a sorta unrelated note, I really hate the Smallville approach both Gotham is taking. Batman knowing Catwoman as a teenager is stupid, just like every single Superman character under the sun knowing Clark before he was Superman was stupid.

What's inherently "stupid" about it? Is the following your reason for feeling it's stupid?

Superman and Batman are characters that operate in big, expansive worlds and shrinking them down so that every super powered in said universe already knows each other and has a deep history with others makes the world feel contrived, small and dumb instead of big and full of possibilites (aka the appeal of superhero worlds).

Already knowing people before becoming your fully formed code named superhero doesn't make the universe any smaller. It makes it the same size just sooner. You think that all of those characters, like Catwoman or Penguin, didn't exist before the story usually starts? They did. The idea that the characters only first encounter each other as adults is just as much a contrivance because it was a decision made by writers to pace it that way originally. Having characters impact or interact with each other as part of a process of crystallizing their iconic portrayals opens up new possibilities.

[DochaDocha]

On a sorta unrelated note, I really hate the Smallville approach both Gotham is taking. Batman knowing Catwoman as a teenager is stupid, just like every single Superman character under the sun knowing Clark before he was Superman was stupid.

Superman and Batman are characters that operate in big, expansive worlds and shrinking them down so that every super powered in said universe already knows each other and has a deep history with others makes the world feel contrived, small and dumb instead of big and full of possibilites (aka the appeal of superhero worlds).

Yeah, I'm with you. The first time I ever saw something like that was with the cartoon Flintstone Kids, and even as a kid I thought it was terrible, so I forever dubbed it "Flintstone Kids-ing." If you go backwards in a character's life, don't cop out and just make it so that the principal characters in his life happened to show up earlier in his life; instead, come up with new characters who were important back to him back then. The exception would be if a guy kept the same social circles from youth to adulthood, but that so obviously was not meant to be the case for Superman. Of course, Smallville didn't invent the idea that Luthor was originally from that town, but I never liked that idea. I'm not a Byrne man, but I absolutely think he got it right: Lex and Supes first encountered one another in Metropolis, and their rivalry began then. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but that's what I like. What's the point of moving thousands of miles away from a tiny town in the middle of nowhere* to the biggest, most modern city in the world, and all your close friends and enemies are connected to your past? As you say, it makes what should be a highly-expansive world into one that's really shrunken down. And shame on every comic writer who insists that child Bruce Wayne and Alfred happened to drive through Smallville (what are the bleepin' odds that they took that route?) and randomly happened to cross paths with Clark Kent.

*But in Smallville's defense, they more or less turned Smallville into a suburb of Metropolis, so it really wasn't in the middle of nowhere like the comics imply it to be.

[LoneNecromancer]

What's inherently "stupid" about it? Is the following your reason for feeling it's stupid?



Already knowing people before becoming your fully formed code named superhero doesn't make the universe any smaller. It makes it the same size just sooner. You think that all of those characters, like Catwoman or Penguin, didn't exist before the story usually starts? They did. The idea that the characters only first encounter each other as adults is just as much a contrivance because it was a decision made by writers to pace it that way originally. Having characters impact or interact with each other as part of a process of crystallizing their iconic portrayals opens up new possibilities.

Yeah, no, that's nonsense.

It's one of the worst writing errors to make, making characters all know each other earlier. It reduces the world as by shrinking the characters around them, it makes that world seem not large and teeming with life, but makes it feel fake and narrow.

It's also very basic and is a definite beginner's mistake- Tynion's Red Hood for example, was riddled with them.

[Mr. Mastermind]

What's inherently "stupid" about it? Is the following your reason for feeling it's stupid?

Did you know all your co-workers when you were a teenager?

I mean, I have pretty much no idea what I'm going to do with my life, but I'm fairly certain I haven't met my worst enemy, future wife or best friends yet. That's just how the world works.

Already knowing people before becoming your fully formed code named superhero doesn't make the universe any smaller. It makes it the same size just sooner. You think that all of those characters, like Catwoman or Penguin, didn't exist before the story usually starts? They did. The idea that the characters only first encounter each other as adults is just as much a contrivance because it was a decision made by writers to pace it that way originally. Having characters impact or interact with each other as part of a process of crystallizing their iconic portrayals opens up new possibilities.

There's no problem with those characters having established histories and backstories, but it is just contrived for those characters to have a deep, personal connection with the main character before they become superheroes and villains.

By making Batman and Superman know the same people throughout most of their lives, they don't come off a people with normal social lives or careers and it makes the vast superhero world where anything can happen seem much smaller as a result.

[Kid A]

To be fair to Gotham though, they seem to be focusing more on the city, Commissioner Gordon, and the police drama. From what I can tell, the show isn't about a young Bruce finding his way and fighting kid versions of his villains like Smallville. Bruce, Selina, etc. are there, but the trailer makes them look incidental.

As for the Metropolis idea, the only Superman show I would ever watch is an animated one.

[Mr. Mastermind]

Yeah, I don't mind what I'm seeing from Gotham as much as I did in Smallville. The only thing that annoys me is that Bruce and Selina are going to know each other before they're superheroes.

The rest of it is fine considering that Jim is a cop, so he would know Gotham's criminals like Penguin. Hopefully that's as far as they go, and don't have 10 year old Bruce playing chess with Edward Nygma.

[DochaDocha]

Yeah, I don't mind what I'm seeing from Gotham as much as I did in Smallville. The only thing that annoys me is that Bruce and Selina are going to know each other before they're superheroes.

The rest of it is fine considering that Jim is a cop, so he would know Gotham's criminals like Penguin. Hopefully that's as far as they go, and don't have 10 year old Bruce playing Chess with Edward Nygma.

And don't be afraid to make up some new characters!

[Blacksun]

Smallville got 10 years...

it's something to consider.

[Pharozonk]

As long as it doesn't descend into Smallville levels of bad, then I would give it a chance.

[krazijoe]

Is Ambush Bug involved?

[daBronzeBomma]

Very interesting responses to this here idea for a METROPOLIS tv show.

Some points to raise and then maybe a revised pitch:

1) Superman is the undisputed king of superhero television. It's even not remotely close. As of 2013 (Superman's 75th birthday), the character has had no less than 4 separate & successful* live-action television shows under his belt: 1950s ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN, 1980s SUPERBOY, 1990s LOIS & CLARK & 2000s SMALLVILLE. No one else, at this time, has had more than 1 solo tv series (though Batman and Flash are about to get their second shows later this year). Taken together, that's TWENTY-FOUR (24) full seasons of Supeman/Clark Kent on live-action television.

The point is while his movie career has been as much perceived miss (lookin' at you SIII, SIV, and SR) as perceived hit (lookin' at you S:TM, SII and yes, MOS), his television career has been nothing short of monumental. 24 years on TV out of 76 years in existence is already a record that NO OTHER HERO will likely ever come close to (seriously Superman's been on live-action tv enough that he averages about 1 out of every 3 years he's been around ... that's incredible). Television is and has been Superman's natural home over the decades, which is weird when you consider that a proper Superman fight should require the bigger budgets of feature-length cinema.

2) After 24 seasons on TV, it becomes harder and harder to find a new angle on the guy that can weather a multi-season storyline. ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN had him set up in his mid-30s to early 40s. SUPERBOY had him technically in his late teens and early 20s. LOIS & CLARK had him in his mid 20s - early 30s. and SMALLVILLE took him from mid-teens through mid-20s. We've seen Clark Kent from age 15 to age 40 on TV in some form by now. At this point, the only uncovered pieces of his life would be KRYPTON tv show (hold that thought ...) and a show about Jonathan & Martha Kent raising Clark through middle school ... and maybe a Superman of the far future tv show. So we need to get a little creative.

3) Television will always lag behind the movies in terms of SFX and budget. And Superman at full power will probably always require more than what TV can provide. So let the MAN OF STEEL movies have your big-budget Superman vs Darkseid armageddon-battles. Superman can still show up on TV for other, less-loud reasons.

So let me revise the pitch:

The story is about the city of Metropolis, at the Dawn of the Age of Heroes.

On the one side, Metropolis is welcoming back its most famous prodigal son, 29-year-old billionaire prodigy Lex Luthor, who is returning to Metropolis after spending years across the world amassing a personal fortune. Luthor is announcing that his company called Lexcorp will be headquartered in Metropolis and he is looking forward to employing as many of Metropolis's citizens as he can. Luthor starts by absorbing his recently & mysteriously dead father Lionel's old Luthercorp company wholly into his Lexcorp. Luthor is already transforming Metropolis into a true city of tomorrow on all fronts. Luthor is accompanied by his bodyguard Mercy and his lawyer Hope (both women) wherever he goes.

On the other end, we have 29-year-old journalist Lois Lane, who is receiving her first Pulitzer prize and has become a national celebrity who is being wooed by Morgan Edge to become a global correspondent for his Galaxy Broadcasting Company (think female Anderson Cooper) away from Perry White's Daily Planet. Lois is many months along with a romantic relationship to war hero John Corben, who also answers to her approving father General Sam Lane. She likes Corben, who is smarter than he appears (but is quietly angling to be accepted for General Lane's super-secret "Metal-O" project), but has many other suitors, and many exes as well (no slut-shaming here).

And then there's 23-year-old Clark Kent, fresh out of college and undeniably talented, but introverted and seemingly invisible in a crowd. I want Lois to be older than Clark for the purpose of making Lois one of Clark's professional idols (Clark started reading her work online when she was a rookie professional reporter at 21 and he was a high school freshman at 15). Clark is starstruck by Lois, but Lois is much too busy with her own life to notice Clark. At the same time Clark shows up, reports of unknown rescuers and near-accidents start popping up ... but no Superman yet. Save that for the first season finale.

But you'd get the adult origins of all of Superman's non-alien-based rogues. Metallo, obviously. Parasite. Prankster. Toyman. The arrival of Intergang and Bruno Mannheim. Professor Milton Fine creating his wondrous BRAINIAC machine (that will eventually be infected and overrun by Vril Dox). G.G. Godfrey. Mr. Mxyzlptlyk (later on). Bizarro (later on). Livewire. And the hits go on.

But the main character should be the city of Metropolis itself. What's it like to live in Metropolis if you are NOT Superman? How do you cope with the emergence of the first public super-hero and the first public super-villains as a civilian? And Metropolis should be a unique place, not just "New York City by Day". Higher tech than Tokyo, cleaner than Toronto, more ethnically diverse than New York City, etc. So, if you make Metropolis itself a character (City of Second Chances, etc), where its citizens always try to find hope in the most dire circumstances (opposite of Gotham), I think you may have something new to work on with Superman.

It would have to differentiate itself from every previous TV incarnation. It can't be a repeat of LOIS & CLARK. It can't cover the same ground as SMALLVILLE. Heck, it has to be different from SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES too.

And I wouldn't want this getting greenlit until at least 2023, after the MOS movies have run their course.

BTW, definitely onboard with the ethnic Lois Lane casting idea.



* = "successful" on American TV means at least 3 seasons of original content aired/broadcast.

[kidstandout]

Very interesting responses to this here idea for a METROPOLIS tv show.

Some points to raise and then maybe a revised pitch:

1) Superman is the undisputed king of superhero television. It's even not remotely close. As of 2013 (Superman's 75th birthday), the character has had no less than 4 separate & successful* live-action television shows under his belt: 1950s ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN, 1980s SUPERBOY, 1990s LOIS & CLARK & 2000s SMALLVILLE. No one else, at this time, has had more than 1 solo tv series (though Batman and Flash are about to get their second shows later this year). Taken together, that's TWENTY-FOUR (24) full seasons of Supeman/Clark Kent on live-action television.

The point is while his movie career has been as much perceived miss (lookin' at you SIII, SIV, and SR) as perceived hit (lookin' at you S:TM, SII and yes, MOS), his television career has been nothing short of monumental. 24 years on TV out of 76 years in existence is already a record that NO OTHER HERO will likely ever come close to (seriously Superman's been on live-action tv enough that he averages about 1 out of every 3 years he's been around ... that's incredible). Television is and has been Superman's natural home over the decades, which is weird when you consider that a proper Superman fight should require the bigger budgets of feature-length cinema.

2) After 24 seasons on TV, it becomes harder and harder to find a new angle on the guy that can weather a multi-season storyline. ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN had him set up in his mid-30s to early 40s. SUPERBOY had him technically in his late teens and early 20s. LOIS & CLARK had him in his mid 20s - early 30s. and SMALLVILLE took him from mid-teens through mid-20s. We've seen Clark Kent from age 15 to age 40 on TV in some form by now. At this point, the only uncovered pieces of his life would be KRYPTON tv show (hold that thought ...) and a show about Jonathan & Martha Kent raising Clark through middle school ... and maybe a Superman of the far future tv show. So we need to get a little creative.

3) Television will always lag behind the movies in terms of SFX and budget. And Superman at full power will probably always require more than what TV can provide. So let the MAN OF STEEL movies have your big-budget Superman vs Darkseid armageddon-battles. Superman can still show up on TV for other, less-loud reasons.

So let me revise the pitch:

The story is about the city of Metropolis, at the Dawn of the Age of Heroes.

On the one side, Metropolis is welcoming back its most famous prodigal son, 29-year-old billionaire prodigy Lex Luthor, who is returning to Metropolis after spending years across the world amassing a personal fortune. Luthor is announcing that his company called Lexcorp will be headquartered in Metropolis and he is looking forward to employing as many of Metropolis's citizens as he can. Luthor starts by absorbing his recently & mysteriously dead father Lionel's old Luthercorp company wholly into his Lexcorp. Luthor is already transforming Metropolis into a true city of tomorrow on all fronts. Luthor is accompanied by his bodyguard Mercy and his lawyer Hope (both women) wherever he goes.

On the other end, we have 29-year-old journalist Lois Lane, who is receiving her first Pulitzer prize and has become a national celebrity who is being wooed by Morgan Edge to become a global correspondent for his Galaxy Broadcasting Company (think female Anderson Cooper) away from Perry White's Daily Planet. Lois is many months along with a romantic relationship to war hero John Corben, who also answers to her approving father General Sam Lane. She likes Corben, who is smarter than he appears (but is quietly angling to be accepted for General Lane's super-secret "Metal-O" project), but has many other suitors, and many exes as well (no slut-shaming here).

And then there's 23-year-old Clark Kent, fresh out of college and undeniably talented, but introverted and seemingly invisible in a crowd. I want Lois to be older than Clark for the purpose of making Lois one of Clark's professional idols (Clark started reading her work online when she was a rookie professional reporter at 21 and he was a high school freshman at 15). Clark is starstruck by Lois, but Lois is much too busy with her own life to notice Clark. At the same time Clark shows up, reports of unknown rescuers and near-accidents start popping up ... but no Superman yet. Save that for the first season finale.

But you'd get the adult origins of all of Superman's non-alien-based rogues. Metallo, obviously. Parasite. Prankster. Toyman. The arrival of Intergang and Bruno Mannheim. Professor Milton Fine creating his wondrous BRAINIAC machine (that will eventually be infected and overrun by Vril Dox). G.G. Godfrey. Mr. Mxyzlptlyk (later on). Bizarro (later on). Livewire. And the hits go on.

But the main character should be the city of Metropolis itself. What's it like to live in Metropolis if you are NOT Superman? How do you cope with the emergence of the first public super-hero and the first public super-villains as a civilian? And Metropolis should be a unique place, not just "New York City by Day". Higher tech than Tokyo, cleaner than Toronto, more ethnically diverse than New York City, etc. So, if you make Metropolis itself a character (City of Second Chances, etc), where its citizens always try to find hope in the most dire circumstances (opposite of Gotham), I think you may have something new to work on with Superman.

It would have to differentiate itself from every previous TV incarnation. It can't be a repeat of LOIS & CLARK. It can't cover the same ground as SMALLVILLE. Heck, it has to be different from SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES too.

And I wouldn't want this getting greenlit until at least 2023, after the MOS movies have run their course.

BTW, definitely onboard with the ethnic Lois Lane casting idea.



* = "successful" on American TV means at least 3 seasons of original content aired/broadcast.

this pitch sounds better except for these two parts

1 this could work only if a. superman/clark get's a fair majority of the screentime. he's the draw here, let's not pretend people would tune for anyone else over him b. has strong recurring characters that bounce off clark

2 he should get into journalism for himself, getting into journalism due to idol worship instead of his own pursuit of truth seems like a bad cw retcon. and having lois be that idol to excuse her denying his existence seems like more of the same. if your going to rehash this plot for the umpteenth time, give the viewer a valid reason for her not seeing him that doesn't give the impression of a school boy crush plot. have them work on different floors, different schedules but interact briefly.