How Do You Feel About The Joker?

[Chickfighter]

Well I don't read, write or any way interact with fan fiction (though fair play to those who do - just not my thing) but the rest of this I totally agree with. I always hear people saying what a great character he is but I just cannot see it. To me, the Joker is just a lunatic who kills people and makes bad jokes, not exactly deep.

I am sure people will tell me all about the way he has many different personalities/versions and the Mystery Multiple Choice background but those aren't positives. If he could be anything, to me that means he isn't anything. Is he a wacky goofball? Is he a serial killer? Is he a gangster in face paint? He's been presented as all of those and more besides but none of them are the 'real' him, or any more real than the others. And if we don't know his back story/motivation then he may as well not actually have one, he kills because he kills. He messes with Batman because that's just how he rolls.

Doesn't have a reason, doesn't have a purpose, doesn't have a point. Characters can change over time, Golden/Silver/Bronze/whatever age sensibilities mean different takes on the characters, I respect that. But when a character can act totally differently in two stories in the same month and that is actually supposed to be 'in character'? Not for me. At all.

Tehehe, you explained it better than I did I think. I mentioned trying to write the Joker once upon a time simply to point out that I had given the character and what to with him some thought. My conclusion was that beyond being a potential plot device for random otherwise nonsensical shocks and his desire to torment Batman there wasn't much but an empty shell.

[doodledude]

He is the god of chaos Batman is trying to bring order Joker is the hell no it's all chaos it's all random and always will be.He's batshit crazy and I love him.Ledger's performance in Dark Knight has taken him to a level I don't think comic writers now can replicate but need to strive for he's the anti Batman nuff said.

[quinnzel]

Really interesting to read everyone's opinions! It seems like there's a pretty large majority that favor The Joker (at least at this early point in the poll).

I have a question to those who say they don't like him because he's over-used-- being that The Joker is by far not the only character who's used to this extent (Lex Luthor, for example, is another one) is it really the over-use that's influencing your decision, or is it the character himself you don't like? There's bound to be stories that fall flat and are just plain stinkers from time to time for every character (and Batman himself is no exception), so is it the over-use that's made you grow to not like him or did you not care for him in the first place?

[Tupiaz]

Really interesting to read everyone's opinions! It seems like there's a pretty large majority that favor The Joker (at least at this early point in the poll).

I have a question to those who say they don't like him because he's over-used-- being that The Joker is by far not the only character who's used to this extent (Lex Luthor, for example, is another one) is it really the over-use that's influencing your decision, or is it the character himself you don't like? There's bound to be stories that fall flat and are just plain stinkers from time to time for every character (and Batman himself is no exception), so is it the over-use that's made you grow to not like him or did you not care for him in the first place?

For me it is the over-use of the character. Because it will follow less good stories and thus watering down the character; quality over quantity.

[The Kid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWgyKDfFC_U

To me this scene is why the Joker is the perfect foil and enemy of Batman

[Randumbz]

None of those options. I like him as a character but he just needs to be used less so his stories are more effective. Luckily it seems that DC agrees since he hasn't been used for some time now.

Wasn't death of the family just one year ago?

[MichaelC]

Joker's cool, but overexposed. As the Gotham show shows, other villains like Penguin can actually be really compelling if you have a good take on them.

[Tupiaz]

Wasn't death of the family just one year ago?

Death of the Family ended with Batman issue 17 which was released in february 2013 that is over 1 1/2 year ago. It doesn't seem like there is a new Joker story cooking. End game will bring as to about the two year mark for Joker's last appearance.

[Tupiaz]

Taught this tweet by Snyder was rather relevant. He is apparently writing Joker at the moment. Too soon?

[Vil_Dee]

Well I don't read, write or any way interact with fan fiction (though fair play to those who do - just not my thing) but the rest of this I totally agree with. I always hear people saying what a great character he is but I just cannot see it. To me, the Joker is just a lunatic who kills people and makes bad jokes, not exactly deep.

I am sure people will tell me all about the way he has many different personalities/versions and the Mystery Multiple Choice background but those aren't positives. If he could be anything, to me that means he isn't anything. Is he a wacky goofball? Is he a serial killer? Is he a gangster in face paint? He's been presented as all of those and more besides but none of them are the 'real' him, or any more real than the others. And if we don't know his back story/motivation then he may as well not actually have one, he kills because he kills. He messes with Batman because that's just how he rolls.

Doesn't have a reason, doesn't have a purpose, doesn't have a point. Characters can change over time, Golden/Silver/Bronze/whatever age sensibilities mean different takes on the characters, I respect that. But when a character can act totally differently in two stories in the same month and that is actually supposed to be 'in character'? Not for me. At all.

Bull hooey. Joker's got a personality. There are character traits that he consistently has no matter what his current persona is.

Why does he need a definitive origin story? How many previously mysterious, scary characters were ruined by TMI? Did "Hannibal Rising" do any favors for Hannibal Lecter? Dude was a brilliant cannibal psychiatrist, isn't that more than enough? Did we really gain anything by finding out about his childhood? No, in fact it ruined the mystery and made the character lesser for it. And poor old Darth Vader sure wasn't done any favors by that prequel.

Not to mention that other characters have constantly had their origins stories tweaked and rewritten in an effort to revamp the character. Catwoman? She was prostitute. No, she was a dominatrix. No, she was an little orphan thief girl. No, she's the daughter of that mob boss. No, she's the daughter of some other mob boss.
So why is a character who always had a mysterious origin worse than characters who have their origins constantly rewritten?

And please he always has a reason and a purpose. Name me a Joker story where he does something for no reason?

[WraizeM]

As much as it feels like they use him way to much, I love the joker. He is completely insane and is driven by his madness, Batman needs the Joker as much as the Joker needs Batman.

I do think Joker needs a update though, what it is and how they do it I don't know but it just seems like the right time to update the character.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I love the Joker when he's written/portrayed how I think he should be written/portrayed - as a criminal mastermind who is very aware, very conscious, and even conscientious (even if psychopathic), of what he is doing.

Decide. Is he crazy and just needs to be put out of his (and my) misery? Or is he a brilliant planner with evil goals?

Yeah, that bothers me too. I think different fans like either of those types of portrayals, some fans I'm sure like both. But I don't like it when he's portrayed as some insane lunatic, who apparently just so happens to devise these brilliant, complex crimes and plots on a whim. It almost seems oxymoronic.

It's as if some writers use his disturbed and sadistic mind and sense of humor to define his psyche, rather than vice versa.

[Captain Haddock]

Bull hooey. Joker's got a personality. There are character traits that he consistently has no matter what his current persona is.

Why does he need a definitive origin story? How many previously mysterious, scary characters were ruined by TMI? Did "Hannibal Rising" do any favors for Hannibal Lecter? Dude was a brilliant cannibal psychiatrist, isn't that more than enough? Did we really gain anything by finding out about his childhood? No, in fact it ruined the mystery and made the character lesser for it. And poor old Darth Vader sure wasn't done any favors by that prequel.

Not to mention that other characters have constantly had their origins stories tweaked and rewritten in an effort to revamp the character. Catwoman? She was prostitute. No, she was a dominatrix. No, she was an little orphan thief girl. No, she's the daughter of that mob boss. No, she's the daughter of some other mob boss.
So why is a character who always had a mysterious origin worse than characters who have their origins constantly rewritten?

And please he always has a reason and a purpose. Name me a Joker story where he does something for no reason?

Oh he has reasons for doing what he's doing in any given story, but those reasons change all the damn time. Does he love Batman, or hate him? Kill him, or make him kill? Get a genuine laugh out of Batman or laugh at his expense? All of those are equally valid so which is the REAL Joker? Is there even a real Joker - if there isn't he can't truly be said to be a character any more, simply a plot device.

I concede that Lecter was done no favours by the big reveal of his back story but it's not totally the same. He was always a genius, cannibalistic serial killer, whose motivations turned out to be rather terrible... BUT he didn't switch between killing people, robbing banks, corporate crime and freelance terrorism on a whim - doing so was/would be out of character, but not so for Joker, who has no consistent character to be out of. Vader's fall from grace would have been a lot more moving/dramatic if actually written/acted by someone with real talent but he was always a fallen Jedi even before the paternity reveal. He didn't swing between cackling prankster and one-liner death quipper. He was always a big scary b#####d who killed people.

None of these are the same as the Joker, and better for it.

[Detox]

I like the Joker's maniacal behavior but sometimes he talks too damn much.

[DJ Doom]

... for instance I can't believe he's coming back to the main book already. Far too early, guarantees sales though

You nailed it there.

I was ready to drop Batman because Zero Year bored the hell outta me, but I'm sticking with it just to see how this new Joker story turns out.