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  1. #1
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    Default NYCC: DeConnick, Simone & Amanat on the Future of Female Fandom

    Writers Kelly Sue DeConnick & Gail Simone and edtior Sana Amanat discussed female stories and fans and what's next for both in New York.


    Full article here.

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    Too bad Wilson and Alphona couldn't make it. Sounds like a really cool panel

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    I really liked some of what they said in the panel, especially the part about how it's not that women are just entering the comic book fandom, it's that we're coming back.

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    Ill be the first to chime in here that DeConnick goes a bit too far...her last line is a bit harsh.. and over all I think she goes overboard. We are all laid back comics geeks anyways..no need to seem so aggressive and come off that way. I found this line in particular harsh

    Toward the end of the panel, an aspiring writer asked the panel if they had any advice for men wishing to write realistic female characters. "Pretend they're people," DeConnick immediately answered to applause. "Look, it's a smart ass remark but it's a question I get asked a lot, and the thing is, when we start to imagine ourselves as so very different, that you cannot project yourself into another gender and write that character, your perspective as a storyteller is going to be incredibly limited. 'Write what you know' is a fallacy and it's lazy.
    I think it was the newsarama version of this had some lines that the industry needed to "get over itself" and that woman ARE reading comics. Well, I agree they are but I still don't blame the industry for trying to entice new female readers..i just don't usually agree with the shotgun blast approach. I prefer more developed planned and nurtured approaches.

    http://www.newsarama.com/22434-nycc-...out-there.html (here it is)

    "I would like all of the women in the room who read comics to raise your hands," she said. "So we can now dispel with all questions about 'How do we get women to read comics?' and 'Do women read comics?' That's history, ok? Women have always read comics.
    Its like if there are so many woman readers out ther, how come your captain marvel sells abysmal? We need more woman readers!


    On the "women in fridges" mention, Simone has always wanted that to have such a narrow definition, but to me it is a much broader issue than something inherent to woman or using woman's death to strengthen male heroes. I've always agreed it was cheesy...but more so representative of all cheesy things bad writers do to add shock schlock to their story.. I never felt it was a woman thing or really tied to anti feministic stuff, although it manifests as this sometimes (like Blob eating Wasp Loeb). Its almost selfish that Simone thinks this condition (which she coined) is the exclusive property of sexism...cheesy schlock is cheesy schlock.

    I still don't quite get how they didn't go on more of tangent of the crazy body images and visuals that IMO still has a long way to go in comics. Comic book woman are still tremendously homogenous sex symbols and this needs work. Even though Deconnick seems real angry and unreasonable maybe it just comes off that way from reading about this and not hearing it. I'm not really a fan of her Captain Marvel.. its been largely disappointing to me, because I am a huge Carol Danvers fan.
    Last edited by THANOSRULES; 10-17-2014 at 10:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by THANOSRULES View Post
    Ill be the first to chime in here that DeConnick goes a bit too far...her last line is a bit harsh.. and over all I think she goes overboard. We are all laid back comics geeks anyways..no need to seem so aggressive and come off that way. I found this line in particular harsh



    I think it was the newsarama version of this had some lines that the industry needed to "get over itself" and that woman ARE reading comics. Well, I agree they are but I still don't blame the industry for trying to entice new female readers..i just don't usually agree with the shotgun blast approach. I prefer more developed planned and nurtured approaches.

    http://www.newsarama.com/22434-nycc-...out-there.html (here it is)



    Its like if there are so many woman readers out ther, how come your captain marvel sells abysmal? We need more woman readers!


    On the "women in fridges" mention, Simone has always wanted that to have such a narrow definition, but to me it is a much broader issue than something inherent to woman or using woman's death to strengthen male heroes. I've always agreed it was cheesy...but more so representative of all cheesy things bad writers do to add shock schlock to their story.. I never felt it was a woman thing or really tied to anti feministic stuff, although it manifests as this sometimes (like Blob eating Wasp Loeb). Its almost selfish that Simone thinks this condition (which she coined) is the exclusive property of sexism...cheesy schlock is cheesy schlock.

    I still don't quite get how they didn't go on more of tangent of the crazy body images and visuals that IMO still has a long way to go in comics. Comic book woman are still tremendously homogenous sex symbols and this needs work. Even though Deconnick seems real angry and unreasonable maybe it just comes off that way from reading about this and not hearing it. I'm not really a fan of her Captain Marvel.. its been largely disappointing to me, because I am a huge Carol Danvers fan.
    I am not woman myself, but I do think it is unfair to assume women read books with female leads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by THANOSRULES View Post
    Its like if there are so many woman readers out ther, how come your captain marvel sells abysmal? We need more woman readers!
    There's some really false logic in that. Just because a woman reads comics doesn't mean she's automatically going to grab THAT book.

    Quote Originally Posted by THANOSRULES View Post
    I still don't quite get how they didn't go on more of tangent of the crazy body images and visuals that IMO still has a long way to go in comics.
    It basically boils down to... they were responding to questions (first from the journalist leading the panel, then from the audience) and nobody really brought it up much.

    (I was there. It was a really good panel.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atren View Post
    I am not woman myself, but I do think it is unfair to assume women read books with female leads.
    You may be right.. especially when we have not addressed some of the other issues, frankly like Spider woman butts in the air and basically woman comics that center on being quasi pornographic type stuff. I wonder what marvel thinks of this. Do they think cranking out female lead books with scanty clad super ladies checking the block? DO they think woman will like these books? or are they for men?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilyinblue View Post
    There's some really false logic in that. Just because a woman reads comics doesn't mean she's automatically going to grab THAT book.


    It basically boils down to... they were responding to questions (first from the journalist leading the panel, then from the audience) and nobody really brought it up much.

    (I was there. It was a really good panel.)
    I don't know if its false logic.. I guess it could be.. I get her point about the older days.. but I'd also guess that was to really younger audiences as well. Maybe your right, but it would add more credibility if her book was a hit and delivered I know we would disagree about that it seems.

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    I think that more women buy Spider-Man than Captain Marvel. But seriously, I feel that female writers should just cater to both men and women by allowing their stories to flow, as well as bringing in other characters from other part of the Marvel Universe. It's called diversifying you interest to bring more readers to the story. And strangely enough, a lot of female readers love Spider-Man than Captain Marvel. Go figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    I think that more women buy Spider-Man than Captain Marvel. But seriously, I feel that female writers should just cater to both men and women by allowing their stories to flow, as well as bringing in other characters from other part of the Marvel Universe. It's called diversifying you interest to bring more readers to the story. And strangely enough, a lot of female readers love Spider-Man than Captain Marvel. Go figure.
    Maybe true.. which would explain the 3 new spider (gal) books. I'm just a huge fan of Defalco's spider girl and will always be..I know Marvel let it keep coming back and it would fail, but they could have put her in a big event or something to pump it up. Its not that different than Nova. it was just such a good grounded book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    I think that more women buy Spider-Man than Captain Marvel. But seriously, I feel that female writers should just cater to both men and women by allowing their stories to flow, as well as bringing in other characters from other part of the Marvel Universe. It's called diversifying you interest to bring more readers to the story. And strangely enough, a lot of female readers love Spider-Man than Captain Marvel. Go figure.
    They do diversify. Men do read and enjoy Captain Marvel. I can't remember if it was this panel or the Women of Marvel panel (it's all sort of a blur)... but one guy in the audience asked if they thought we'd get away from the idea that there's "boy" comics and "girl" comics. KSD asked, "How many men in the audience read Captain Marvel?" A LOT of hands went up. "Done! Next question?"

    Women can read any enjoy books starring men. Men can read and enjoy books starring women. Nothing about Captain Marvel makes it a "girls only" book.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by THANOSRULES View Post
    I don't know if its false logic.. I guess it could be.. I get her point about the older days.. but I'd also guess that was to really younger audiences as well. Maybe your right, but it would add more credibility if her book was a hit and delivered I know we would disagree about that it seems.
    I'll put it this way...

    Not every male who reads comics reads Spider-Man. Not every female who reads comics reads Captain Marvel.

    Especially today...

    Right now Marvel has... Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Elektra, Storm, and Black Widow. We have Gamora, Spider-Woman, Spider-Gwen and Silk right around the corner. That is 10 books starring a woman (which is AWESOME). Given that people of both genders enjoy reading books about both genders... a female Marvel reader has a LOT of choices right now. Buying them all is... expensive.

    Also, Wilson's Ms. Marvel's first issue has gone into *6* reprinting runs. Captain Marvel may not be the strongest selling of them... but the books are being bought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyinblue View Post
    I'll put it this way...

    Not every male who reads comics reads Spider-Man. Not every female who reads comics reads Captain Marvel.

    Especially today...

    Right now Marvel has... Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Elektra, Storm, and Black Widow. We have Gamora, Spider-Woman, Spider-Gwen and Silk right around the corner. That is 10 books starring a woman (which is AWESOME). Given that people of both genders enjoy reading books about both genders... a female Marvel reader has a LOT of choices right now. Buying them all is... expensive.

    Also, Wilson's Ms. Marvel's first issue has gone into *6* reprinting runs. Captain Marvel may not be the strongest selling of them... but the books are being bought.
    And Thor, however temporary that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberhubbs View Post
    And Thor, however temporary that is.
    Yes! So many that I ran out of fingers to count them on.

  14. #14
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    THANOSRULES, this bit:

    Toward the end of the panel, an aspiring writer asked the panel if they had any advice for men wishing to write realistic female characters. "Pretend they're people," DeConnick immediately answered to applause. "Look, it's a smart ass remark but it's a question I get asked a lot, and the thing is, when we start to imagine ourselves as so very different, that you cannot project yourself into another gender and write that character, your perspective as a storyteller is going to be incredibly limited. 'Write what you know' is a fallacy and it's lazy.
    It's only harsh because it's true. It's such an obvious and simple thing, "oh women are people too! of course! who knew! hurhur "... and yet so many writers, professional or amateur, utterly FAIL at managing to do this incredibly simple and obvious thing.

    Pretty much all the other related issues, stem from this base one, be it the ridiculous over sexualization or the fridging or the supposed female hive mind. It all comes from a perspective where women aren't actual people, with their own individual wants, needs and goals. If you can get creators to wrap their heads around that one simple and obvious idea, the other stuff usually fixes itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by THANOSRULES View Post
    You may be right.. especially when we have not addressed some of the other issues, frankly like Spider woman butts in the air and basically woman comics that center on being quasi pornographic type stuff. I wonder what marvel thinks of this. Do they think cranking out female lead books with scanty clad super ladies checking the block? DO they think woman will like these books? or are they for men?



    I don't know if its false logic.. I guess it could be.. I get her point about the older days.. but I'd also guess that was to really younger audiences as well. Maybe your right, but it would add more credibility if her book was a hit and delivered I know we would disagree about that it seems.
    Sure it is. I am a female reader and I don't read most of the 'girl' books out there, they're... just not my favorite characters, is all. Being a woman doesn't dictate your tastes that strongly, or mean all your favorite characters are going to be women, or anything like that. At most, most women will agree on things that they find distasteful about how some female characters are portrayed, but they won't all agree about which characters are their favorites. Most of my favorite characters are guys. I am not saying Marvel or anyone else should not promote their female characters or give them solo books, having more female characters in the books, and specifically ones that are not treated purely as sex objects, will go a long way to make the books and fandom more welcoming to new female readers. But at the same time, merely being a girl doesn't instantly make you a Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Storm, Black Widow etc. fan. (any more than it means that no guys like those characters)

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