Man, do Batman story lines get repetitive or what!!

[oasis1313]

They're like soap operas--you can always pick up pretty much where you left off. Me and my beloved were watching a "Dark Shadows" marathon awhile back--Barnabas Collins had decided to go kill somebody--but it took him a month to get off his front steps because of all the monologues and then the dialogues (with his buds trying to talk him out of it) and then the monologues again, break for commercial, pine for the girl awhile, then back to murderous speeches--then the rest of the season wrestling with inner and outer demons. Batman is kinda like that.

[RobinFan4880]

I guess I just like Batman more as a supporting character, to kind of add to his mythos from an immersion standpoint, as well as to not risk any sort of inconsistencies of his characterization. Really I just don't like it when writers use inner monologs w/ Bruce. I feel it takes away from the character and sometimes it's inconsistent between writers.

I feel like we have four different versions of Batman running around, at least some times. The Batman in Synder's work (Eternal and Batman) really feels different than the Batman in Johns' Justice League. Then you have Tomasi's Batman, which feels like a direct throughput from Morison's run, while Buccellato's and Manapul's Batman is different as well.

This always happens when you have a character that is being overexposed. The same thing happened with Wolverine. He was a very different character in each of the titles he was apart of (Avengers, Uncanny Avengers, Wolverine, Amazing X-Men and Wolverine and the X-Men).

[Pinsir]

The definition of insanity :

It should however be noted, that that is in fact not the definition of insanity.

[Cipher]

I guess I just like Batman more as a supporting character, to kind of add to his mythos from an immersion standpoint, as well as to not risk any sort of inconsistencies of his characterization. Really I just don't like it when writers use inner monologs w/ Bruce. I feel it takes away from the character and sometimes it's inconsistent between writers.

I wasn't sure I'd ever find anyone who agreed with me on this. I'm not a fan of DC writers' overuse of monologue boxes in general, but I find it really chafes with Bruce more than other characters. I think it works in isolated stories (both Miller "Dark Knight" books; some sparing use in Long Halloween), but yeah, it's always been an off-putting element for me in regular ongoings and rarely feels authentic. And I don't know what it is about him in particular, since it definitely doesn't hold true for all DC's bigger icons. I'm always fine with, and even appreciate, getting inner monologues from Clark.

For a long time my interest in the Bat-line was, like yours, very much centered on the non-Bruce characters for that reason (Batwoman and Batgirl especially). Right now I've dropped back across the board due to financial issues (grad school), but the one series to continue to earn my interest is Batman and Robin in which Tomasi ... does he ever, at all? ... avoids inner monologues from Bruce like the plague, though not at the expense of characterization. Morrison also rarely if ever uses/used inner monologues, right?

I guess what I'm saying is, to hell with monologue boxes; they're a plague and a crutch, but doubly so with characters like Batman.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I feel like we have four different versions of Batman running around, at least some times. The Batman in Synder's work (Eternal and Batman) really feels different than the Batman in Johns' Justice League. Then you have Tomasi's Batman, which feels like a direct throughput from Morison's run, while Buccellato's and Manapul's Batman is different as well.

This always happens when you have a character that is being overexposed. The same thing happened with Wolverine. He was a very different character in each of the titles he was apart of (Avengers, Uncanny Avengers, Wolverine, Amazing X-Men and Wolverine and the X-Men).

Yeah, agreed and understandable.

But just something about Bruce that bothers me more than other characters. I think perhaps b/c he's more complex psychologically, emotionally, etc. Hell, extensive textbooks have been written about his psyche and philosophy!

But like for Wolvie, it doesn't really put any doubts in my mind. When I was reading Wolvie's oversaturation (at least a couple years ago), it all still felt believable. Whether he be written as a tough badass or wise headmaster w/ a heart of gold, those are all things I think still fit Wolvie's character - he just knows how to act around whom and when. Granted, I think I was reading just 2 or 3 titles he was in at the time (Aaron's WatXM, Remender's UXF, some Avengers title...even guest appearances like in Rucka's Punisher), but I never once thought "that doesn't seem Wolverine-ish..."

W/ the Bruce titles (again, at least a couple years ago), I definitely noticed how he was more self-doubting in some, confident in others. Cool, calm and collected in some, irrationally overreactive in others, etc etc.

Well, I'll add, the inconsistencies in the writing of Frank Castle is one I've grown to notice and dislike. Hmm, now I'm gonna start thinking what other characters are inconsistent between writers and are/are not tolerable/believable that way.

edit:

I wasn't sure I'd ever find anyone who agreed with me on this. I'm not a fan of DC writers' overuse of monologue boxes in general, but I find it really chafes with Bruce more than other characters. I think it works in isolated stories (both Miller "Dark Knight" books; some sparing use in Long Halloween), but yeah, it's always been an off-putting element for me in regular ongoings and rarely feels authentic. And I don't know what it is about him in particular, since it definitely doesn't hold true for all DC's bigger icons. I'm always fine with, and even appreciate, getting inner monologues from Clark.

For a long time my interest in the Bat-line was, like yours, very much centered on the non-Bruce characters for that reason (Batwoman and Batgirl especially). Right now I've dropped back across the board due to financial issues (grad school), but the one series to continue to earn my interest is Batman and Robin in which Tomasi ... does he ever, at all? ... avoids inner monologues from Bruce like the plague, though not at the expense of characterization. Morrison also rarely if ever uses/used inner monologues, right?

I guess what I'm saying is, to hell with monologue boxes; they're a plague and a crutch, but doubly so with characters like Batman.

Yeah, agreed re: isolated stories and Tomasi's B&R.

B&R has been the 1 Bruce title I've even considered as an option to continuously read (I did read the silent issue, and WW and Frankie issues). I haven't read M&B's 'Tec extensively, but the previews I have read I could tell already didn't vibe well w/ me.

I've picked up some of the recent guest writers' issues on various Bruce books as well. I thought Duggan did a solid job w/ Bruce's voice on his Batman issue (I remember lol'ing at IGN listing a "Con" as "doesn't always read like a Snyder book"). I have 'Tec #35, but yet to read it.

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

It should however be noted, that that is in fact not the definition of insanity.

According to Far Cry 3 it is.

[Star-Lord]

Batman is currently taking on Darkseid, the Justice League and has the Joker on the back of his head. If that doesn't suit your fancy, Morrison had him take on the Universe. For a guy who's 75, he's still pretty interesting.

[son of booyah]

There are definitely basic storylines that always occur, over and over. Here are some off the top of my head (with a few unnecessary examples):

An old villain that has been lying low comes back to town and is 'crazier than before'
-DotF, Faces, many TAS episodes, Joker in DKR
A new threat comes to town that is 'like nothing Batman has seen before'
-Mutants in DKR, Hush, The Cult, Black Glove
The bad guy is obsessed with (and sometimes succeeds in) breaking Batman mentally
-The Cult, RIP, Hush, Prey, Arkham Asylum, DotF
Batman is distracted with a pet case while things go to hell
-Blades, many that are slipping my mind right now
Batman falls in love and has to think about revealing his true identity
-Strange Apparitions, Black Glove, the Natalya thing in Hurwitz's run
A rogue changes their ways - or have they?
-Going Sane, Black Mirror, etc
Some character from Batman's past resurfaces and turns out to be evil
-Hush, Black Mirror, Gothic
A horrible event happens to the Gordon family
-Killing Joke, NML, Eternal, Black Mirror
The Joker does something nonsensical to prove he's a worthy arch-enemy
-DotF, many TAS episodes, RotJ
Robin rescues Batman
-Strange Apparitions, DKR, etc.

And then there are the actual literal cliches:

Someone breaks into the Batcave (but usually somehow can't remember)
-DotF, RotJ, Court of Owls, RIP
Arkham Asylum is taken over by the inmates or a villain
-Arkham Asylum, RIP, DotF
Death Traps
-...
Robin gets in trouble solo
-RotJ, Slayride, Batman and Robin where he's in the room with the Joker and a crowbar, A Death in the Family
The new character is really the villain
-CoO, Hush, RIP
Gotham has some sort of disaster that cuts it off from the world
-NML, Zero Year, I haven't read Contagion but that's in there, right?
Batman is stronger than someone with superpowers because he has a plan
-DKR, Tower of Babel, Endgame
Arkham inmates get released en masse
-NML, CSBG did a whole post about this

Okay, I think that's enough.

[oasis1313]

Another purpose for the "New 52" was so that DC could go back in there and mine that stuff all over again, rehash it, and make money without having to come up with any new ideas.

[Tupiaz]

There are definitely basic storylines that always occur, over and over. Here are some off the top of my head (with a few unnecessary examples):

An old villain that has been lying low comes back to town and is 'crazier than before'
-DotF, Faces, many TAS episodes, Joker in DKR
A new threat comes to town that is 'like nothing Batman has seen before'
-Mutants in DKR, Hush, The Cult, Black Glove
The bad guy is obsessed with (and sometimes succeeds in) breaking Batman mentally
-The Cult, RIP, Hush, Prey, Arkham Asylum, DotF
Batman is distracted with a pet case while things go to hell
-Blades, many that are slipping my mind right now
Batman falls in love and has to think about revealing his true identity
-Strange Apparitions, Black Glove, the Natalya thing in Hurwitz's run
A rogue changes their ways - or have they?
-Going Sane, Black Mirror, etc
Some character from Batman's past resurfaces and turns out to be evil
-Hush, Black Mirror, Gothic
A horrible event happens to the Gordon family
-Killing Joke, NML, Eternal, Black Mirror
The Joker does something nonsensical to prove he's a worthy arch-enemy
-DotF, many TAS episodes, RotJ
Robin rescues Batman
-Strange Apparitions, DKR, etc.

And then there are the actual literal cliches:

Someone breaks into the Batcave (but usually somehow can't remember)
-DotF, RotJ, Court of Owls, RIP
Arkham Asylum is taken over by the inmates or a villain
-Arkham Asylum, RIP, DotF
Death Traps
-...
Robin gets in trouble solo
-RotJ, Slayride, Batman and Robin where he's in the room with the Joker and a crowbar, A Death in the Family
The new character is really the villain
-CoO, Hush, RIP
Gotham has some sort of disaster that cuts it off from the world
-NML, Zero Year, I haven't read Contagion but that's in there, right?
Batman is stronger than someone with superpowers because he has a plan
-DKR, Tower of Babel, Endgame
Arkham inmates get released en masse
-NML, CSBG did a whole post about this

Okay, I think that's enough.

However who would make a story there not in some way touches these elements? That is more or less impossible. Some of the elements are fine others is best avoided. And here I think you forgot probably the biggest cliche:

Something happen right around the murder of Martha and Thomas Wayne which had a very important significances for Bruce or the Batman mythos
- Loeb's Halloween stories, Gothic, Hush,

It is simply impossible for it all major events to happen here and trying to tie everything into the murder just weakens the murder and don't necessarily makes the story stronger nor better. It isn't that you can't make a good story with this (I like the Halloween stories and Gothic) it is just an overused cliche there should be avoided. Also death traps is a part of the Batman mythos which seems to have been forgotten Frank Miller. The 66 show was a master of death traps though. You can make death trap a theme for story any more or at least that is hard unless it is a character like the Riddler. However it can be used with a purpose for instance security.

Another purpose for the "New 52" was so that DC could go back in there and mine that stuff all over again, rehash it, and make money without having to come up with any new ideas.

Creating the New 52 and letting go of the old continuity actually gives the possibilities to tell many stories there weren't possible with characters. A lot of old characters is now possible to reshape and rethink.

[SXVA]

In general there aren't many new stories to be told, Humanity has been around awhile.

It's more about changing yourself and adding new perspectives which will then change the way you view things and where you continue to grow and learn, and gain various and vast perspective. Your personal self is the driving force and key to art as in many ways it's a reflection of self.

I'll give an example.

With this Future's End/Multiversity stuff ongoing, i was basically avoiding it as too confusing and not enough cohesion within the DCU, etc.

Then, you also have something similar taking shape at Marvel right now.

This puts me in a somewhat similar position where i'm not all that excited, i've been exposed to time travel and variant universes through various media recently in an overwhelming capacity and so it's seeming kind of "samey", etc.

However, i took a very deep breath... walked away from things, started getting into other stuff as a way to clear my head and refocus and then as i was immersing myself in various things an old idea/perspective i used to have randomly came back to me,

Where i would view actors as sort of constants of a multiverse of sorts, like... how you will see the same actors in so many different movies/series, i started to see them almost like the same people in different universes kind of like multiversity with being a slightly different variation such as in this universe they're a Doctor whereas in this one they're a criminal, etc, or the variant universes in Marvel how there can be an infinite amount of variations of the character. It's difficult to explain in a way to where it made sense in my head but that caused all of this stuff to make sense to me in a way that renewed my interest and excitement, well.... anyway that kind of gave me a surge of interest into all of this Multiverse/Future's End, whatever's going on with Avengers/Secret Wars/Incurions, etc.

It wasn't anything that changed from the story side of things, it's basically the very same as when i wasn't really interested or excited... but a fresh perspective and clear mind on my side changed everything.

[exile001]

I feel like most of the X Books... have been the truest definition of repetitive. Especially now under Bendis' pen. So hey.

Ha ha. I was just going to say that. Currently: Mutant faction Vs. Mutant faction. Check. Time wobbliness (inc. evil future). Check. Jean Grey not dead (again). Check. Even the Shi'ar, the Purifiers and Cyclops's dad have made appearances.

Seriously, though, I have to agree that if you're that sick of it, keep buying (as you said you're going to anyway) but leave the books for, say, a year. Then you'll have a nice huge stack to be excited about and can experiment with other books for a while to cleanse the palate.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Do not get me wrong, I love Bruce like a brother and my DK tattoo speaks for itself but Batman stories just seem so repetitive and lame compared to other stories from other companies.


Yada yada, gang, Falcone, boo hoo my parents. When do the stories start to change, if ever.




I will never stop reading but for the past 2 years I have started reading X books and other titles and the stories really are captivating to me comapared to the past 15 years of Bat, except for the Death story...love that!!

I'll go check if A Tale Of Two Cities has changed already.

...

Nope. Still the same.

[C_Miller]

I'll go check if A Tale Of Two Cities has changed already.

...

Nope. Still the same.

Biggest false equivalent ever. A Tale of Two Cities is one work meant to tell one story. It's not like he's saying he wants his copy of Year One to change over the years.

[ChucksComics]

Has to be tough to tell a new story every month, for 75 years!

Chucks Comics, Terre Haute, Indiana