Suppose DC was making an Ultimate Line. How would you handle this?

[CatAttacker]

You have unlimited amounts of options. The only limit is it needs to have ten books at most.

I wondered, since the New 52 and Earth-One reminded me heavily of the Ultimate line at Marvel. However, the New 52 is sometimes shackled by status quo and synergy, while Earth-One is regretfully coming out in like annually cycles.

[Darrin Kelley]

That is pretty much what the New 52 is. DC's answer to Ultimate Marvel.

The problem, of course, is that the concept has fallen flat. Failed. It just isn't what the readership of DC Comics wanted. And it's showing.

[WillieMorgan]

The problem, of course, is that the concept has fallen flat. Failed. It just isn't what the readership of DC Comics wanted. And it's showing.

No it hasn't. You are perfectly entitled to your own opinion on the New 52 but don't post statements like that as if it's a cast iron fact.

Regarding a DC Ultimates line - the nearest to it is actually the (infrequent) Earth-One series.

[Sirzechs]

That is pretty much what the New 52 is. DC's answer to Ultimate Marvel.

The problem, of course, is that the concept has fallen flat. Failed. It just isn't what the readership of DC Comics wanted. And it's showing.

Is that the reason why the sales are still higher than before the Reboot?

[ed2962]

It's funny cuz a fair number of folks thought that the All Star Line was going to be DC's answer to the Ultimate Line, but despite the success of the Superman and Batman projects it kinda fell a part. I'd say that Earth One has sorta taken on that role.

But I think maybe the OP is wondering what titles we'd have if we were in charge of an ongoing imprint? Let's start with the obvious...

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Flash
Green Lantern

Then I'd add...

Teen Titans
Doom Patrol
A horror title (maybe, Black Orchid, Ragman, House of Mystery?)
A sci-fi title (perhaps Adam Strange, REBELS, Omega Men?)
Donna Troy

Expanded line Honorable Mentions: Aqua Man, Batgirl, Zantanna, and some villain-centric title

I guess a Justice League title would be inevitable but I'm not sure how an Ultimate version would be different from any of the main ones we've seen over the years.

[Powerboy]

I thought Marvel Ultimate Universe was a way of giving writers a means to mess with the origins and early adventures of the characters without rebooting their main continuity. With DC, you don't need that because they do reboot their main continuity.

[Darrin Kelley]

Is that the reason why the sales are still higher than before the Reboot?

They are not higher if you look at it honestly and objectively. Nor has the extra sales bubble they have generated in the beginning been something sustainable. It fell off rapidly and is still continuing to shrink.

Also. The loss of core readership has been something that they have never recovered from. The people who buy month after month that sustain the company have shrunk drastically since the reboot. These vital core customers are the ones that kept the company reliably going year after year. Losses that can never be replaced.

In advertising, one of the core principles is to know your customers. Who they are. Why they buy. Their habits in buying. And what keeps them buying.

This is why running after potential one-time customers is a losing game. Because they are are not the audience that sustains any line of products. Regular dedicated readers are.

[Sirzechs]

They are not higher if you look at it honestly and objectively. Nor has the extra sales bubble they have generated in the beginning been something sustainable. It fell off rapidly and is still continuing to shrink.

Also. The loss of core readership has been something that they have never recovered from. The people who buy month after month that sustain the company have shrunk drastically since the reboot. These vital core customers are the ones that kept the company reliably going year after year. Losses that can never be replaced.

In advertising, one of the core principles is to know your customers. Who they are. Why they buy. Their habits in buying. And what keeps them buying.

This is why running after potential one-time customers is a losing game. Because they are are not the audience that sustains any line of products. Regular dedicated readers are.

@bold you mean the same people that stop buying before the Reboot? you're the one that's not looking at it objectively, the sales was dying before the reboot if you can't admit that then there's no point in arguing about it, New52 didn't turn away core readers they wer already going out the door.
If the sales were higher then you could say it fail but the fact that it wasn't and the New52 still hasn't drop to lower than that number means it isn't a failure.

[WillieMorgan]

They are not higher if you look at it honestly and objectively. Nor has the extra sales bubble they have generated in the beginning been something sustainable. It fell off rapidly and is still continuing to shrink.

Also. The loss of core readership has been something that they have never recovered from. The people who buy month after month that sustain the company have shrunk drastically since the reboot. These vital core customers are the ones that kept the company reliably going year after year. Losses that can never be replaced.

In advertising, one of the core principles is to know your customers. Who they are. Why they buy. Their habits in buying. And what keeps them buying.

This is why running after potential one-time customers is a losing game. Because they are are not the audience that sustains any line of products. Regular dedicated readers are.

Honestly and objectively you say? You might need to apply those terms to yourself. This post is again nothing other than your own opinion. All newly launched comics suffer from attrition over time and DC's market share was lower before the reboot. Those 2 statements are actually a fact as opposed to one persons view on things. That's why Marvel have gotten into the habit of re-launching titles so often.

But this isn't about Marvel and it doesn't need to get into a slanging match about the New 52 either. This forum's seen enough of those. If you want to engage properly you need to back your opinions up with fact.

I also agree with Powerboy's point above about DC not particularly requiring an Ultimates style line.

[GlennSimpson]

(Here we go again. Emphasis is mine.)

From: http://community.comicbookresources....ighlight=sales

September update:

DC Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Sep) 2014 - 19,651,345 estimated units.
DC Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Sep) 2013 - 21,302,646 estimated units.

And here are the figures for 1997-2012:
2013 - 28,184,085 estimated units
2012 - 29,602,125 estimated units
2011 - 26,522,201 estimated units
2010 - 23,528,000 estimated units
2009 - 24,126,336 estimated units
2008 - 25,760,378 estimated units
2007 - 29,597,217 estimated units
2006 - 30,243,575 estimated units
2005 - 26,995,698 estimated units
2004 - 23,895,322 estimated units
2003 - 22,344,120 estimated units
2002 - 20,687,488 estimated units - Dan Didio joins DC as VP of Editorial.
2001 - 21,220,332 estimated units
2000 - 23,243,656 estimated units
1999 - 25,141,760 estimated units
1998 - 22,869,060 estimated units
1997 - 26,323,968 estimated units


And, out of interest, here's the Marvel numbers:

Marvel Sales - Top 300 (Jan- Sep) 2014 - 22,649,224 estimated units.
Marvel Sales - Top 300 (Jan- Sep) 2013 - 24,095,731 estimated units.

And here are the figures for 1997-2012:
2013 - 31,243,347 estimated units
2012 - 30,278,745 estimated units.
2011 - 29,522,809 estimated units
2010 - 29,998,200 estimated units
2009 - 34,167,744 estimated units
2008 - 37,269,988 estimated units
2007 - 38,132,744 estimated units
2006 - 34,647,105 estimated units
2005 - 32,461,832 estimated units
2004 - 32,021,066 estimated units
2003 - 28,974,336 estimated units
2002 - 28,473,404 estimated units
2001 - 25,349,296 estimated units
2000 - 21,948,494 estimated units - Joe Quesada becomes EIC.
1999 - 24,111,104 estimated units
1998 - 27,015,555 estimated units
1997 - 32,664,192 estimated units

[Zero Hunter]

Ultimate DC to me would probably look like what Supreme Powers did over at Marvel.

[Grayson]

DC's answer to Ultimate Marvel is Earth 2.

[CatAttacker]

Is that the reason why the sales are still higher than before the Reboot?

Totally!

Although, the amount of events that go on in the Batman books are most likely a player when it comes to sales. It actually feels to me like DC does more events often, like Marvel.

I myself, despite disliking the reboot overall, am eagerly anticipating to read the Dial H collection, Zero Year, finish up Manapul's Flash, and a few others when the time comes.

[Deniz Camp]

I think the notion of the Ultimate Line - accessible stories told by exciting, modern creators - can and should be applied to the line as a whole. I think it was pre-figured by Marvel Knights, which did it much more successfully (on the creative end) and ultimately what killed the Ultimate line was the application of that philosophy to the main Marvel line.

Basically, I don't see much purpose to an ultimate DC line.

[Flash Gordon]

I think the notion of the Ultimate Line - accessible stories told by exciting, modern creators - can and should be applied to the line as a whole. I think it was pre-figured by Marvel Knights, which did it much more successfully (on the creative end) and ultimately what killed the Ultimate line was the application of that philosophy to the main Marvel line.

Basically, I don't see much purpose to an ultimate DC line.

What he said.

I never thought of the MARVEL KNIGHTS line as a precursor to the ULTIMATE line but that makes perfect sense. MARVEL KNIGHTS churned out some amazing titles and stories, the ULTIMATE line only had a few good years.