Game of Thrones

[Reverse Happy]

Something thats been bugging me since the episode.

Why didn't the Nightkings armor and clothing burn up in the dragon flame? He may be invulnerable for some reason (Targaryean ancestry maybe?) but his clothes are armor would not be. Not that I want to see a naked Night King but when Dany got burned up on multiple occasions she came out of the fire naked so why not the Night King?

I just figured he had a really strong cold aura, although Arya would've died if it was always at max.



Speaking of which, that was a great moment for Arya, but now I'm worried she's heading for a messier death, since the show won't just let her neatly assassinate Cersei to make a long story short.

[AndrewCrossett]

Yeah, with Arya having killed the Night King I think her taking out Cersei is off the table. You would think that would be Jamie's job, but... that would be so predictable.

Everyone complains about the bad military tactics used in this episode, but I don't think that's bad storytelling... I think it's a story element that Jon is just a lousy military commander. He wins his battles in spite of himself. That's why he is not destined to occupy the Iron Throne. Not for long, anyway.

I still think it will be King Gendry and Queen Arya, possibly as co-rulers.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

He's also big on not going down the road of the same tropes over and over again. Plus, I'd argue almost all of the deaths at the end of season 6 were handled quite well by the show.

D&D have made many mistakes but let's be real clear about something - GRRM will never finish his books. And not because he's working so hard on them....but because he made such a convoluted mess of them that the narrative is all but lost. He should get enormous credit for creating this amazing story, but he is given far too much of a pedestal when it comes to the flaws for the story.

okay, I know I'm in the minority. But I do think at the very LEAST we'll actually see the 6th book. The 7th book, on the other hand is a different story obviously.

[stargazer01]

This video is hilarious.. and how many feel about The Long Night episode..

https://twitter.com/iiTerrific/statu...68397937659912

[MindofShadow]

Speaking of which, that was a great moment for Arya, but now I'm worried she's heading for a messier death, since the show won't just let her neatly assassinate Cersei to make a long story short.

Isn't she GRRM's wife favorite character or something?

[Frontier]

Isn't she GRRM's wife favorite character or something?

I thought that was Tyrion .

[ClanAskani]

Ever since D&D ran out of books to adapt, the deaths in the show have been far less chaotic and more "beautiful" which I think is missing the larger point that Martin is making, which is that the idea of a "heroic" death is a lie. Death is ugly, in any form.

It's notable that the only characters to die "ugly" deaths in the post-book run of the show are Shireen and Hodor — and those two plot points came from GRRM.

Ser Arthur Dayne was killed by being stabbed in the back of the neck at the Tower of Joy. Ned had lost the fight. It wasn't the fair, honorable fight that Bran of Season 1 would have imagined.

The expectation of the final fight with the Night King was like the epic fight that Bran thought happened between his father and Ser Arthur Dayne. And the Night King expected it - honorable men would charge at him like Lyanna Mormont charging at Wight Giant.

D&D have made many mistakes but let's be real clear about something - GRRM will never finish his books. And not because he's working so hard on them....but because he made such a convoluted mess of them that the narrative is all but lost. He should get enormous credit for creating this amazing story, but he is given far too much of a pedestal when it comes to the flaws for the story.

The hate this episode is getting is insane, but I get why book readers are upset. They've spent actually decades focused on small details and the show is the Cliff Notes version of the books.

But I highly doubt the books will be any better received since in the end, the story is leading to the same place. GRRM didn't want to write the typical fantasy story, but in the end it's going to be the main characters taking out the villains. I just hope GRRM actually completes them so another writer doesn't have to face the backlash.

I found the narrative for the Long Night worked within the context of the show. Rather than all the theories about how all the elements of the Prince(ss) who was Promised could be fulfilled by events which hadn't happened - it was the events of Seasons 1-3 which forged Lightbringer. Everything that happened to Arya led her to that moment. And everything that has happened to Jon and Dany will lead to a bigger moment related to the war for the Iron Throne. All of the storylines were wrapped up in a far more cohesive way that I ever thought was possible.

[Punisher007]

Isn't she GRRM's wife favorite character or something?

Supposedly she said that she'd leave him if he killed Arya off.

[Theleviathan]

Ser Arthur Dayne was killed by being stabbed in the back of the neck at the Tower of Joy. Ned had lost the fight. It wasn't the fair, honorable fight that Bran of Season 1 would have imagined.

The expectation of the final fight with the Night King was like the epic fight that Bran thought happened between his father and Ser Arthur Dayne. And the Night King expected it - honorable men would charge at him like Lyanna Mormont charging at Wight Giant.




The hate this episode is getting is insane, but I get why book readers are upset. They've spent actually decades focused on small details and the show is the Cliff Notes version of the books.

But I highly doubt the books will be any better received since in the end, the story is leading to the same place. GRRM didn't want to write the typical fantasy story, but in the end it's going to be the main characters taking out the villains. I just hope GRRM actually completes them so another writer doesn't have to face the backlash.

I found the narrative for the Long Night worked within the context of the show. Rather than all the theories about how all the elements of the Prince(ss) who was Promised could be fulfilled by events which hadn't happened - it was the events of Seasons 1-3 which forged Lightbringer. Everything that happened to Arya led her to that moment. And everything that has happened to Jon and Dany will lead to a bigger moment related to the war for the Iron Throne. All of the storylines were wrapped up in a far more cohesive way that I ever thought was possible.

Well said. I think people forget that GRRM himself said this book series was never going to be able to be made for TV or film. They've done a damn fine job of it considering the logistics. It's fair to criticize how the fantasy elements have fallen away, but in fairness...those are the most expensive. What they've already been able to do for TV is mind-blowing and some of what is disappointing is simply out of their hands.

[MindofShadow]

The hate this episode is getting is insane.

The marketers never should have brought up Helm's Deep.

They set the expectations WAY too high.

Next they can compare Ep5 to End game final battle or something ridiculous

[stargazer01]

There were some good moments in the last episode, though. It wasn't a total failure. One of the things I just realize is that scene when Dany with the help of Drogon went to save Jon when he was on the ground. If she hated him and considered him her enemy, she had a perfect chance to kill him there and she didn't.

[ClanAskani]

The marketers never should have brought up Helm's Deep.

They set the expectations WAY too high.

Next they can compare Ep5 to End game final battle or something ridiculous

The number of battle scenes were the most ever filmed for tv. The problem was there wasn't really a storyline where the heroes were doing anything other than being overwhelmed and in the 3rd act, most of the action was simply background for Jon running past as everyone else was close to death. So it really didn't matter how many nights of filming they did - it wasn't all that interesting.

The problem really is the expectations based on speculation about The Long Night (yes, winter didn't last generations and only one single night) and the Azor Ahai/TPWWP theories. Theory videos on YouTube got hundreds of thousands of views. Mainstream websites were taking theories from Reddit and creating articles. Every little detail of trailers was getting dozens of theory videos. There were a couple with 500k+ videos about theories who Arya was running from (Wight Ned? Wight Gendry? Wight Rickon?) but no, it was the simplest answer - Arya was running from generic wights.

While there were mentions of the prophecies in the show, it wasn't necessary for the narrative. Theories like Jon would need to kill Dany (or vice versa) to create Lightbringer - the legendary sword Azor Ahai used to end the Long Night - thus making the White Walker storyline more important than anything else would have taken away from the battle for the Iron Throne. The idea that the dagger was turned into Lightbringer from Catelyn's blood on the blade when she stopped the assassin killing Bran in the third episode connects everything from the show together rather than bringing in crazy fantasy elements.

HBO could have tried to kill the speculation by releasing more information but they probably didn't want spoilers. If the people doing the theory videos had more information about what was in each episode, they might have tempered expectations some, especially the idea that the Long Night would be the plot for episodes 3 through 6 with the Night King sacking Winterfell and going all the way to King's Landing.

[Punisher007]

There were some good moments in the last episode, though. It wasn't a total failure. One of the things I just realize is that scene when Dany with the help of Drogon went to save Jon when he was on the ground. If she hated him and considered him her enemy, she had a perfect chance to kill him there and she didn't.

Seeing her so distraught over Jorah that she cannot even speak, she just makes those sad whimpering noises and weeps. Yeah truly a "Mad Queen" who doesn't care about anyone else there (obvious sarcasm).

Also if they were going to do Dany vs. Jon, they need to get a move on. There's only 3 episodes left and there's still Cersei, Euron, and the Golden Company out there as well.

[stillanerd]

While there were mentions of the prophecies in the show, it wasn't necessary for the narrative. Theories like Jon would need to kill Dany (or vice versa) to create Lightbringer - the legendary sword Azor Ahai used to end the Long Night - thus making the White Walker storyline more important than anything else would have taken away from the battle for the Iron Throne. The idea that the dagger was turned into Lightbringer from Catelyn's blood on the blade when she stopped the assassin killing Bran in the third episode connects everything from the show together rather than bringing in crazy fantasy elements.

Ah, but perhaps we're just assuming the prophecies are now over and done with when they actually aren't. Don't forget, both Bran and Dany have seen visions about a ruin Red Keep/Iron Throne with what looks like snow or ash on the ground. There's also that image Bran has seen of the shadow of a dragon flying over King's Landing. And consider this: if the Lord of Light didn't resurrect Jon Snow to kill the Night King, what did he resurrect him for? As this series has shown over and over, we can never take prophecy at face value, or assume they mean one thing when they mean quite another.

[Havok83]

Ah, but perhaps we're just assuming the prophecies are now over and done with when they actually aren't. Don't forget, both Bran and Dany have seen visions about a ruin Red Keep/Iron Throne with what looks like snow or ash on the ground. There's also that image Bran has seen of the shadow of a dragon flying over King's Landing. And consider this: if the Lord of Light didn't resurrect Jon Snow to kill the Night King, what did he resurrect him for? As this series has shown over and over, we can never take prophecy at face value, or assume they mean one thing when they mean quite another.

Jon was resurrected to end the Night King; that doesnt mean he had to dish out the killing blow. Without him rallying the troops together, there would be no Battle of Winterfell. Without him, the Boltons would likely still hold it and Arya wouldnt have returned. Jon is the reason why she came back and he is what gave her the NK as a target. He played a vital role in putting the chess pieces on the board to end the great threat