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Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #8101
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    Everyone there pledged allegiance to Dany as queen, so everyone there recognized Gendry's legitimization and raising to Lord of Storm's End. None of them would argue that Dany was not a monarch, just because they all made (understandable) errors in judgment in supporting her.

    The Targaryen claim to the throne is no longer relevant because there are no qualified or willing Targaryens to fill it. House Baratheon probably has a better bloodline claim to the dynastic succession than any of the surviving houses.

    I think Bran is an odd choice for king, but not a stupid one. As long as he doesn't abuse his abilities or use them to oppress people, and as long as he delegates power to people who know what they're doing, he'll probably do fine. I would have put Gendry on the throne if it was my story, but it's not. Guess it's up to me to get off my ass and write my own multi-million selling fantasy book series.
    A Melody of Cold and Hot?

  2. #8102
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Variant View Post
    1. I think's it's just as logical that another Lord could've seized power. There are no Martells left. Ellaria Sand and the sand snakes plan failed miserably and they all died gruesome deaths. I just don't see this new Prince continuing their legacy and mistakes.

    2. The combined power of the North, the Vale and the Riverlands make them the strongest both political/military bloc in Westeros at war's end. Because every other place is either leaderless, divided, or still trying to establish order or rule.

    3.4. I simply don't see her attacking the Riverlands given the state of her forces and the state of the Iron Isles. In the short/medium term it just doesn't make sense for her to want to get into a quasi-conflict with her neighbors. Besides, if Yarra does anything to threaten Arya's family, she'll just assassinate her. She basically single handily poisoned all of House Frey. She could do the same thing again. She killed the Night King. Arya's plot armor cannot be denied, it's the most powerful force in GoT canon. The North wins.

    5. Oh I don't think there's zero possibility in the immediate. Lords/bannermen in the westerlands like anywhere else can be an opportunistic lot. Tyrion being the last Lannister and if it helps the position of certain houses to to gain favor early. Not to mention Tyrion knows the westerlands, he would know which lords to talk to and which ones he'd probably want to avoid.

    6. I'm not saying they are a threat in the immediate term, I'm saying they'll spread the news of what happened which would make it politically difficult for the Unsullied to make any alliances IF they decided to stay for some reason.

    7. Well, I don't want to keep beating a dead horse on how bad the writing is. But yeah, That council scene, I think most people there pretty much knew of Jon's lineage at that point. I mean we know Sansa, Arya, Bran, Tyrion, Sam... etc knew about it. But literally no one brings it up. So yeah, it was what it was.
    1. Yes it is possible that someone else seized power hence why I already conceded Dorne siding with Greyworm is not a slam dunk. You are free to think that and I am free to think the more likely scenario is that someone aligned with Ellaria was left in power.

    2. I disagree. The North was decimated by the battle of the Undead while somehow the Unsullied and Dothraki keep respawning. So I would say the Unsullied and Dothraki outnumbered the Northern armies. Dorne was pretty much untouched by either war and Yarra sat out the battle of Winterfell aside from the few soldiers that accompanied Theon. Now once you add the Vale and Riverlands then yes I think they are more men but not enough to take KL and again don't think Riverlands actually go to KL because of the threat of the Iron Born. There is a reason why the North had to retreat against the Undead whereas the Unsullied could hold. Spears and a phalanx formation are generally better than dummies charging into them with swords of shorter length. In addition, the Dothraki cavalry can easily attack their flanks and rear and again cavalry generally destroys guys on ground with swords unless you have the numbers the Undead have. The North simply don't have the gear and tactics to take a city.

    3.4. Arya's plot armor did nothing to stop Dany torching a city and she wandered around helplessly for much of episode 5. She seems to have expended it killing the Night King. As for Yarra, again not that hard to raid a place that is left lightly defended. Although she won't probably have to raid. Just the mere threat is enough to keep the Riverlands from sending a signficant force to KL in my opinion.

    5. Oh Lord's being an opportunistic lot may simply seize the Rock for themselves. Tyrion has no armies to defend it and in this scenario, a foreign power is holding KL. He has already bargained away the Reach to Bronn so he really has nothing left to bargain with.

    6. Unsullied don't need to stay. Just need to defeat the North and Vale in short term and then they can peace out.

    7. I don't think anyone outside of the people you mentioned knew as that would be a pretty significant point. Hell I am not sure even Greyworm knows.
    Last edited by remydat; 05-26-2019 at 08:03 PM.
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  3. #8103
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    The Targaryen claim to the throne is no longer relevant because there are no qualified or willing Targaryens to fill it. House Baratheon probably has a better bloodline claim to the dynastic succession than any of the surviving houses.
    Disagree. It is extremely relevant because Gendry is a Targ. In fact, a smart Maester could argue Dany legitimatizing him and making him Lord of Storm's end effectively made him her heir in the event she did not produce children since Dany of all people should know that Robert was her cousin.

    Really all that happened is a really long time ago, Orys Targ effectively chose to go by Orys Barratheon because he was a bastard. Even further down the road, Gendry's great grandmother who was a Targ married into the Barratheons. Gendry is Dany's cousin and heir.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  4. #8104
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam-Shogun-Assassin View Post
    Another video that explains the problem with Tyrion

    Funny and sad at the time.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  5. #8105
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam-Shogun-Assassin View Post
    Another video that explains the problem with Tyrion

    I don't agree with the video's arguement that having Lords vote made things worse. It's a system that's potentially very problematic... but it's still an improvement over what they've been getting in the last couple of years. Virtually anything is an improvement over the last couple rulers they've had. You could pick names randomly out of a hat and still likely do better.

  6. #8106
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    1. Yes it is possible that someone else seized power hence why I already conceded Dorne siding with Greyworm is not a slam dunk. You are free to think that and I am free to think the more likely scenario is that someone aligned with Ellaria was left in power.

    2. I disagree. The North was decimated by the battle of the Undead while somehow the Unsullied and Dothraki keep respawning. So I would say the Unsullied and Dothraki outnumbered the Northern armies. Dorne was pretty much untouched by either war and Yarra sat out the battle of Winterfell aside from the few soldiers that accompanied Theon. Now once you add the Vale and Riverlands then yes I think they are more men but not enough to take KL and again don't think Riverlands actually go to KL because of the threat of the Iron Born. There is a reason why the North had to retreat against the Undead whereas the Unsullied could hold. Spears and a phalanx formation are generally better than dummies charging into them with swords of shorter length. In addition, the Dothraki cavalry can easily attack their flanks and rear and again cavalry generally destroys guys on ground with swords unless you have the numbers the Undead have. The North simply don't have the gear and tactics to take a city.

    3.4. Arya's plot armor did nothing to stop Dany torching a city and she wandered around helplessly for much of episode 5. She seems to have expended it killing the Night King. As for Yarra, again not that hard to raid a place that is left lightly defended. Although she won't probably have to raid. Just the mere threat is enough to keep the Riverlands from sending a signficant force to KL in my opinion.

    5. Oh Lord's being an opportunistic lot may simply seize the Rock for themselves. Tyrion has no armies to defend it and in this scenario, a foreign power is holding KL. He has already bargained away the Reach to Bronn so he really has nothing left to bargain with.

    6. Unsullied don't need to stay. Just need to defeat the North and Vale in short term and then they can peace out.

    7. I don't think anyone outside of the people you mentioned knew as that would be a pretty significant point. Hell I am not sure even Greyworm knows.
    ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Arya surviving while Dragon fire rained down on the streets of King's landing is the most incredible plot armor in the history of all plot armors (I was literally laughing when she survived that). Everyone on that street was chard ashes, and she comes out .... and her clothes are singed. In fact, I considered Drogon the nuclear weapon of GoT. But now with Drogon gone. Arya is essentially the nuclear weapon now. And I’m not even 100% kidding on that. She’s was trained by the faceless men. She can pretty much go anywhere she wants. There’s no one she can’t assassinate or poison. If Yarra’s causing trouble. She’ll just kill her or poison her men. Yarra basically backed down after Arya warned her she’d cut her throat in the council scene. Greyworm kills Jon or causes trouble for the north. She’d just kill Greyworm or poison him and the rest of the unsullied. She literally took out House Frey by herself. There is no single person like her - combined with her training and plot armor she's basically the most powerful character in the game of thrones.

    So Arya kills/poisons Yarra, Greyworm, and basically anyone else who threatens her family. The north wins. Sorry but whether you like it or not Arya's plot armor is already established in GoT canon.
    Last edited by Variant; 05-27-2019 at 04:32 AM.

  7. #8107
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Variant View Post
    ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Arya surviving while Dragon fire rained down on the streets of King's landing is the most incredible plot armor in the history of plot armors (I was literally laughing when she survived that). In fact, I considered Drogon the nuclear weapon. But now with Drogon gone. Arya is essentially the nuclear weapon now. And I’m not even 100% kidding on that. She’s a faceless girl. She can pretty much go anywhere she wants unseen. There’s no one she can’t assassinate or poison. If Yarra’s causing trouble. She’ll just kill her or poison her men. Yarra basically backed down after Arya warned her she’d cut her throat in the council scene. Greyworm kills Jon or causes trouble for the north. She’d just kill Greyworm or poison him or the rest of the unsullied. She literally took out House Frey by herself. There is no single person like her - combined with her training and plot armor she's basically the most powerful character in the game of thrones.

    So Arya kills/poisons Yarra, Greyworm, and basically anyone else who threatens her family. The north wins. Whether you like it or not Arya's plot armor is already established in GoT canon, so this is none debatable
    I don't think the unsullied know that. And Arya isn't killing all the unsullied and Dothraki by herself. Btw, wasn't the Dothraki supposed to avenge their leader anyway. Or is this something else that was forgotten by characters?

  8. #8108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    I don't think the unsullied know that. And Arya isn't killing all the unsullied and Dothraki by herself. Btw, wasn't the Dothraki supposed to avenge their leader anyway. Or is this something else that was forgotten by characters?
    She doesn't need to kill all of them by herself. She can just poison their food, wine, water, etc. There are poisons you can put on someone's clothes. Look at what she did to House Frey. It's not like she stabbed each one of them, she poisoned their drinks. This is GoT canon so it's not an absurd what-if scenario, it literally happened. And really how could anyone stop her? She can wear faces. Maybe she'll take the face of the Cook, or one of the serving girls, or the Butcher who supplies the meat. There's a reason why the Faceless men are so feared, IF they accept a payment on your life, you're good as dead. It's a guaranteed kill.
    Last edited by Variant; 05-27-2019 at 04:45 AM.

  9. #8109
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Listening to Fatman on Batman or fatman beyond whatever it's called now. Marc Bernardins how it should have ended I liked. Basically Jon ends up with people looking at him to be king but instead seeing the damage that Throne has caused he has Gendry tear it apart and make 7 swords from it. Giving one to each kingdom and forming a council of Kings promising no one man will ever rule again. And then Jon retires to lead his people north of the wall.

    Also who a question they asked who fixed the wall? Seems like everything happens fast but was it like a year that they were able to repair that much of the wall. Or was it a different part of the wall then what see at the end. I dont recall have to rewatch

  10. #8110
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    I don't think the unsullied know that. And Arya isn't killing all the unsullied and Dothraki by herself. Btw, wasn't the Dothraki supposed to avenge their leader anyway. Or is this something else that was forgotten by characters?
    I think the dangerous thing about challenging the North is specically the Starks. Right now collectively they are pretty darn scary. Only reason they're not more dangerous is because they're for the most part pretty descent people.

    Arya is perhaps the best assasin on the board right now. And a lone assasin can't necessarily win a war... but they can make sure whoever is in charge of the other side will regret deciding to get in the war in the first place. Yara already got on Arya's bad side... if or Grey Worm decided to push the issue with Jon I wouldn't necessarily be predicting they would be alive to see the end of the conflict regardless of who wins.

    And while Arya can't win a war, Bran potentially can depending on how effectively he uses his powers. As scary as Arya can be, she's probabably preferable to dealing with Bran if he decides you're a problem. And people better pray Bran never tracks down that dragon. Warging into Drogon would make a lot of peoples lives very unpleasant if those people decide they want a piece of the Starks.

    I've said it a couple times, but if you're going to go to war with the North you'd better dam well be sure it's worth it, because you're asking for a world of trouble. You do not want to tick off the Starks right now.

  11. #8111
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    The Starks own Westeros. All of it. So going to war with them doesn’t mean going to war against a kingdom, you go to war against the whole continent.

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    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Variant View Post
    ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Arya surviving while Dragon fire rained down on the streets of King's landing is the most incredible plot armor in the history of all plot armors (I was literally laughing when she survived that). Everyone on that street was chard ashes, and she comes out .... and her clothes are singed. In fact, I considered Drogon the nuclear weapon of GoT. But now with Drogon gone. Arya is essentially the nuclear weapon now. And I’m not even 100% kidding on that. She’s was trained by the faceless men. She can pretty much go anywhere she wants. There’s no one she can’t assassinate or poison. If Yarra’s causing trouble. She’ll just kill her or poison her men. Yarra basically backed down after Arya warned her she’d cut her throat in the council scene. Greyworm kills Jon or causes trouble for the north. She’d just kill Greyworm or poison him and the rest of the unsullied. She literally took out House Frey by herself. There is no single person like her - combined with her training and plot armor she's basically the most powerful character in the game of thrones.

    So Arya kills/poisons Yarra, Greyworm, and basically anyone else who threatens her family. The north wins. Sorry but whether you like it or not Arya's plot armor is already established in GoT canon.
    Greyworm can just order his men to kill Arya and rest of Lords right then and there. Or can she fly too? I mean they did just come to a meeting while leaving their soldiers outside the city. So if we going full Ham then just kill her right there.

    In fact, aren't the faceless men suppose to kill her for using her skills for personal gain? She can be killed. Let's not exaggerate.

    Also you assuming arnies eat just one big meal like Frey's. Unlikely. Or that there are no tasters or that she has enough poison to kill thousands.
    Last edited by remydat; 05-27-2019 at 06:57 AM.
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  13. #8113
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Greyworm can just order his men to kill Arya and rest of Lords right then and there. Or can she fly too? I mean they did just come to a meeting while leaving their soldiers outside the city. So if we going full Ham then just kill her right there.

    In fact, aren't the faceless men suppose to kill her for using her skills for personal gain? She can be killed. Let's not exaggerate.

    Also you assuming arnies eat just one big meal like Frey's. Unlikely. Or that there are no tasters or that she has enough poison to kill thousands.
    Because Bran already knew the outcome of this meeting by the time he went there, there's no way Grey Worm would be able to get the jump on the Starks. They only showed up because Bran knew at least by this point that Grey Worm was going to take his ball and go home.

    Again, people are vastly underestimating the Starks here. They have a lot of innate advantages over everyone else, and more incentive than anyone else to get what they want.

  14. #8114
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Because Bran already knew the outcome of this meeting by the time he went there, there's no way Grey Worm would be able to get the jump on the Starks. They only showed up because Bran knew at least by this point that Grey Worm was going to take his ball and go home.

    Again, people are vastly underestimating the Starks here. They have a lot of innate advantages over everyone else, and more incentive than anyone else to get what they want.
    You just finish arguing that we dont know how much Bran knows. So which is it? Did he know Dany was going to torch all those people ane he did nothing about it? Why didn't he warg into Drogon and stop the attack?

    Also he knew he would be King. Doesn't mean he knows Greyworm would kill Arya or him right after.

    We don't know how much he sees but sure if we assume he ia actually a monster and saw all this stuff and did nothing to stop it then yes that would be tough to beat. If we assume his knowledge is incomplete as he sees bits and pieces then he can be got. If they were invincible, they wouldnt have needed to punish Jon.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  15. #8115
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    You just finish arguing that we dont know how much Bran knows. So which is it? Did he know Dany was going to torch all those people ane he did nothing about it? Why didn't he warg into Drogon and stop the attack?

    Also he knew he would be King. Doesn't mean he knows Greyworm would kill Arya or him right after.

    We don't know how much he sees but sure if we assume he ia actually a monster and saw all this stuff and did nothing to stop it then yes that would be tough to beat. If we assume his knowledge is incomplete as he sees bits and pieces then he can be got. If they were invincible, they wouldnt have needed to punish Jon.
    We know that he knows the outcome of the meeting we saw during the finale because he said so.

    And I'm not saying he's invincible ... but that's a BIG advantage that Grey Worm would have a very very difficult time dealing with if he became difficult. He can essentially have you beaten before the fight is even really over. I'll simply say again, if you are going to go to war with the Starks you had better be dam sure it's worth it. These are NOT the people you want to mess with.

    As far as Jons punishment... I think they allowed it because firstly they don't want to go to war, even a war they can win. They're good people. Secondly, I think pretty much everyone knows that Jon would probably be happy with his punishment. So it's a win win all around. I don't think there was too much complaining from the Stark camp over the outcome of GoT. They walked away in good shape. No war needed.
    Last edited by XPac; 05-27-2019 at 07:46 AM.

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