Game of Thrones

[MindofShadow]

Are they even going to keep that elective monarchy thingie? It was an emergency decision, nothing says that it's ever going to happen again.

Though, Bran being the broken, a heir is not on the menu so..

Guess that means Sansa's kid is next in line right? Or Jon's through the Stark line? I can' tkeep this **** straight anymore lol

But, then again, a king can pull someone off the Nights Watch right? Didn't Stannis offer that to Jon sense he wsa the rightful king or something?

Oh my, thats Aegon's Music!


Plus didn't the last 3ER live a long ass time anyway?


Anyway, how do they choose who is on this elected council anyway?

What happens wiht they disagree? Civil War?

this doesn't mak ea ton of sense lol. Seirously, Dorne, Iron Islands, North gonna all be independent soon

[Starter Set]

Plus didn't the last 3ER live a long ass time anyway?

Indeed, indeed, they may be stuck with Bran for quite a long time.

[PwrdOn]

Are they even going to keep that elective monarchy thingie? It was an emergency decision, nothing says that it's ever going to happen again.

Though, Bran being the broken, a heir is not on the menu so..

Ironically, an elective monarchy is pretty much an invitation for the "game of thrones" to start up anew as every succession is contested between regional powers and schemers at court and is infinitely more destabilizing than a hereditary system would be. And now that Sansa is ruling the North, they now have that ever so wonderful system of independent kingdoms being ruled by different branches of the same dynasty, meaning that petty family disputes now turn into full blown international conflicts. Plus, political fragmentation of this kind is almost begging for foreign powers to come in and wreak havoc on a disunited realm, it makes no sense for the Dothraki to just leave at this point. So the heroes haven't so much broken the wheel as they have rebuilt it and started it back up spinning faster than ever before.

[Arsenal]

Just long enough for Bran to complete Dany’s vision and take over the whole world

[XPac]

The only part I liked was Sansa becoming Queen and I guess Arya sailing off as that was true to her character but the rest was trash. Jon disgraced and back at Castle Black? Bran becoming king? WTF?!?! We expected Dany to die but how it happened was so choppy and unsatisfactory. This entire episode felt more like an extended epilogue when it felt like there was more story to tell but they rushed Dany's death and we were left with this crap instead. Why the heck is Sam back? Just pissed me off more that he's not dead

I don't think anyone really views Jon being sent up north as a disgrace. Honestly I think the majority of the people view it less as a punishment, and more as a way to avoid war between the Unsullied and the North. Honestly I'll wager everyone there except maybe Yara probably prefers Bran being ruler over Dany, so things probably turned out for the best.

Plus, most people that actually know Jon probably know he'll be happier up North than sitting on the Iron Throne. At worst Jon got off easy... at best it was probably best case scenario for Jon. So really ALL the Starks, Jon included, I think walked away from the finale in pretty good shape.

[XPac]

Guess that means Sansa's kid is next in line right? Or Jon's through the Stark line? I can' tkeep this **** straight anymore lol

But, then again, a king can pull someone off the Nights Watch right? Didn't Stannis offer that to Jon sense he wsa the rightful king or something?

Oh my, thats Aegon's Music!


Plus didn't the last 3ER live a long ass time anyway?


Anyway, how do they choose who is on this elected council anyway?

What happens wiht they disagree? Civil War?

this doesn't mak ea ton of sense lol. Seirously, Dorne, Iron Islands, North gonna all be independent soon

If I had to guess I would assume that some of the kingdoms would eventually break off, and Bran likely would let them without much of a struggle. This new rulership might be a very transitional thing.

That said, as long as things are going fine it probably won't matter that much. They all seem to get along and they all seem to support Bran well enough, so until something bad happens or until someone comes along with designs for a big power grab I imagine things will go smoothly. If we ever revisit the GoT world down the line, it'll be interesting to see how stable things are.

I still think there's a shot that Jon can end up on the throne down the line if they do revisit GoT. HIs primary ability seems to be to bring people together in a time of need. Places like Dorne and the Iron Islands never really got a sense of that from him because the opportunity was never there but it might down the line. Everyone that meets him seems to think he's a good king candidate afterwards.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Like the armies would have had that much wherewithal following Danny's death. They imprisoned Jon for a long time and kept him in good shape all things considered. Not like the North suddenly appeared or that frankly all the armies of Westeros would be so united in such a short period of time. These are unsullied we are talking about not men of the Red Keep. These are battle hardened warriors who knew no retreat. They even went along with the idiotic battle tactics at the battle of Winterfell and came out better than the Northmen despite fighting in their own backyards.

Only half the people voting would have supported Bran at best. Bran can't see the future but can peer into the past, unless you believe Bran can see into the future and simply held his tongue about the scorpion's Messiandae, second Dragon's death, etc. etc. Basically set Jon on a course of potential death and did nothing to avoid all that to find a better solution and save millions of lives in order to become king. If you believe he can see the future, which is what you're essentially saying if you know what omniscient fully means. For all Bran's knowledge, the three meaningful things he's contributed was the information about Littlefinger int the 11th hour, Jon's lineage and that the Night King was coming for him. I'm sorry but considering all the information at his disposal that's a pretty damn low bar. But let's get back to the matter of hand. Most characters aren't aware of the depth of Bran's knowledge and power let alone all those who would be skeptical or flat out wouldn't believe that. Bran has no military accomplishments, barely speaks like a normal human and has frankly shown absolutely nothing in terms of leadership for the entire show outside from sitting back for most of it. 5 to 6 of the characters would have backed Bran but the rest, no way.


That wasn't a compromise at the end. Westeros just got what they wanted. A true compromise would be one of both of Tyrion or Jon dying. That was just some fluff at the end. Sure Tyrion will be punished by atoning for his sins and living in luxury. Jon gets to go back with his homeboys where he is seen as a hero to a place he is familiar with and will essentially rule.

Sansa was speaking for Sansa. Any other northerners with stern objections died off to the zombies. A northerner is sitting on the throne if Bran was actually seen as a suitable king the north would accept him. If it was Jon they would accept him. Why the hell would the Iron Islands, Dorne or any of the regions loyal to Danny accept this? She did right by them and freed them from Circe and kept her oaths. Those are the rulers who would have objected. Than Sansa has the unmitigated gall to pull a power move after everyone else has already agreed to Bran. End of the day Brand would be an advisor at best. The writers didn't empower him effectively enough to rise to the kingship. On paper, he has the tools and the lineage but he has not demonstrated the wherewithal or leadership in any capacity unless you truly believe he saw everything coming and did nothing to prevent it, which puts him in the same league as Circe and Danny, but to a degree even scarier.

Ok let’s go step by step:

Uhhh..... you do realize the Northern army was already down there right? The man who was leading them, their former king, who they are far more loyal to than Dany, was just imprisoned. The North was there and was already a huge bulk of Dany’s coalition. Also the Unsullied lost their trump card in Drogon. Literally the only reason they had for staying there was to see that Jon gets punished for treason

So now the Dothraki/Unsullied have control over s ruined city with no ruler, and the person who killed their Queen has an army that’s ready to start a war if they kill him. So then ravens go out, time passes in stalemate and the rest of the lords show up in a week or so and try to remedy the mess. It’s not really rocket science.

Bran can see the future..... “why do you think I came all this way”. He also saw the vision of Drogon flying over King’s Landing a couple seasons back. Tyrion had a long talk with him and was certain that most of them would survive after. There’s your evidence. Bran knows how things are going to play out. He’s also very detached from humanity. All things considered, the way things played out went pretty well. The Night King was defeated (who had the plan to lure him in the Godswood?), Dany who was poised to become a tyrant bent on conquering the world was killed. Literally his whole family got their best case scenarios (Sansa rules a free North, Arya is free to go on adventures, and Jon gets to spend his life amongst his brothers in the Nightwatch and wildlings who view him as a hero). House Stark is strong and there are no threats. What incentive would he have to change anything? That’s assuming that he actually can change anything.

But as you said let’s get back to the matter at hand. Of the people that were present at that council.....

1. Tyrion believed in Bran he had first hand knowledge from their conversation.
2. Arya believed Bran
3. Sansa believed Bran
4. Davos was there at Winterfell pretty much everyone there was treating Bran like they bought his three eyed Raven thing. Even if he didn’t though, he was loyal to Jon and that would have extended to Jon’s brother.
5. Sam definitely believed in Bran
6. Brienne was the same as Davos only she was loyal to Sansa.
7. Edmure is Brans Uncle, it kinda would benefit him a lot to have his sister’s son in power in comparison to anyone else.
8. The Lords in the Vale were likewise at Winterfell and are very loyal to the North to the point where they supported a Northern King in Jon. So even if they hypothetically didn’t believe Bran was a greenseer, they absolutely had reason to support House Stark.
9. Robyn Aryn likewise takes cue from the Lords in the Vale and Bran is his cousin. So that’s two reasons.

That’s most of the people deciding. Really here are the only people that should have any opposition....

1. Yara. She never met Bran and had loyalty to House Targaryen. At the same time her brother who saved her life died protecting.... Bran.
2. The Dornish Prince. They declared for Dany. But Dorne’s always been semi independent anyways so if most of them are already agreeing on Bran, why not.

And in both cases Bran is a temporary ruler and Dorne and the Iron Islands are among the most independent of the Kingdoms.

Then let’s be real, the show treated it like nearly everyone in the North accepted Bran as the Three Eyed Raven. So most of them probably heard word get around.

At this point I really don’t know how you could argue that Bran wouldn’t get support. There’s far more evidence contrary to your points here. Significantly so.

Next point..... There was no other compromise to be had. The Dothraki/Unsullied were foreign invaders who just sacked the capital. If Jon died the Northerners are 100% going to war. That’s not a fight anybody wanted to have and the new King of Westeros and Queen of the North weren’t going to let Jon die. That was off the table and that starts a war. Imagine you’re the Unsullied, your entire purpose for being there ended with your queen dying, most of your army was destroyed in Winterfell, the dragon flew off. You are stuck in this city that you have no ambition or leader wanting to rule. At that you have one prisoner responsible for your queen’s death and the only business you have is seeing that he gets punished, but if you kill him you start a war that likely doesn’t end well for you or at least leaves many of your men dead in a strange land.

Regardless of what us the audience know about what Jon wants, the entire realm views Taking the Black as a punishment. It’s effectively exile from the realm in a cold region where you have no prospects of owning land or titles. For Greyworn and the Unsullied Jon was cast out from his home and got a standard Westerosi punishment and it prevented blood shed. And tbf neither side wanted even that. The Stark’s hated the idea and the Unsullied wanted Jon dead. That was the best you could possibly get with Jon without bloodshed.

The fact that the audience knows that Jon actually loved the Nights Watch and Wildlings and that it’s where he is happiest and is idolized is just a benefit that for Jon a major punishment actually isn’t much of one in this case. He got a happy ending while everyone else thinks he got the shaft. You can’t use information that is meant only for Jon and the audience against the in story convention it represents. Greyworn shouldn’t know it’s a good deal for Jon. Hell even Sansa and Arya didn’t understand it. So in story it works.its a poor argument to say “well the audience knows better”. For decisions other characters make in story.

You have a much better point with Tyrion. He skated. He also was guilty of a far less serious crime. Jon killed the Queen. Tyrion released a prisoner and tried to assist him in helping an enemy flee after a point where he orchestrated their defeat. So the prisoner with the lesser crime got a pass because the new king was backing him up. You have to make a judgment if it was really worth it to Greyworm to push the issue because Tyrion released Jamie, especially knowing that he was risking a war over Jon.

For them it was compromise. The guy who did the most damage didn’t go free like the Northerners wanted and didn’t die like the Unsullied want. He got a middle ground, or a compromise. A compromise that prevented a battle. In story that is logically consistent with both sides motives.

I really don’t see anything here that doesn’t make sense. It’s pretty simple and consistent with what has been presented.

[XPac]

Dany at least changed into her supervillian outfit for her final moments.

Also nice that someone kept Jon's old Night's Watch outfit in a closest somewhere in King's Landing!

The whole Night's Watch thing...okay the Wall got destroyed and the Night's Watch is gone right? Weren't they just part of Jon's army of Northmen? I'd imagine the ones who weren't, just took off the first chance they got...so there is no Night's Watch. Jon should have just escaped out a window or something and took off heading north. Same outcome, just minus the leaps of logic.

If there's no Night Watch left, or at least not much of a Night Watcht then I suspect the idea might be for Jon to help rebuild it. I'm sure inevitably there will be more viable candidates sent up there overtime. And there might even be a few surviving Night Watch who might return to duty especially if Jon is up there.

In the short turn, the Nights Watch is probably Jon and the Free Folk. Now that they're on good terms, there's always at least a small standing army up there if needed.

[Thievery]

Are they even going to keep that elective monarchy thingie? It was an emergency decision, nothing says that it's ever going to happen again.

Though, Bran being the broken, a heir is not on the menu so..

They mentioned that Bran can’t have kids so the implication is the next monarch will be elected

My guess would be that at least one of the other noble's or their children would try to become king or queen by force once Bran is dead. Or maybe it happens two generations down the road. More endless war for Westoros.

Perhaps I am reading to much into this, but I didn't actually hear Jon tell Sansa that he forgave her for cutting a deal that would send him back to the Night's Watch In his last meeting with Sansa, Arya, and Bran. He just said something along the lines of how the North would have a good queen to rule them.
It seemed to me that Jon was just sidestepping in his answer to Sansa. Jon is portrayed as a character who always tries to be honest and will try to avoid telling a lie. His lack of outright statement that he forgives Sansa could mean that he really doesn't.

Edit: Damn, I type slow and not vey articulate. Every typed out better answers while I was still typing and thinking about what to say in the two postst that I responded to.

[XPac]

ugh, I just want to wash this taste out of my mouth.

The show didn't even make any damn sense after Danny was killed. Her armies just let Jon go without any consequences......made no sense. Also everyone being okay with Bran was weird. And than Sansa pulling a greedy power grab at the end. OMG.

Thankgoodness for Lord of the Rings so I can actually watch high fantasy done right. I should have trusted my insteincts in season 1 where I was bored out of my mind.....but no the word kept telling me to watch this show and that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread

I think it actually makes sense that her armies didn't went the way they did. To execute Jon would have been essentially to gurantee a war with the North. While I would't say they necessarily feared that consequence, I don't think they necessarily believed it would be worth it. It's not like Grey Worm necessarily had any intention of ruling himself or even sticking around. Provded that Jon got some justice, I think it's better just walking away rather than commiting to another war in a place he doesn't want to be in with people he doesn't necessarily have any problems with.

Plus...in all honestly I think Grey Worm at least on some level knew what Dany did was wrong. Killing soldiers is fine. But I think despite his loyalty to Dany, he HAD to know on some level that murdering perhaps thousands of innocent women and children was wrong. So I honestly believe he understood what Jon did, even if he obviously didn't like it.

I'll agree everyone being okay with Bran is weird. But I also think everyone believed he was a "safe" choice. He didn't want the job, and had no beef with anyone. I think at this point those might actually be more desirable qualifications than actually being qualified.

[Cerridwen]

I just wanted to see Meera become Bran's queen

[XPac]

The 3 eyed raven, and what happened to Bran, is not supposed to be something comfy. All that stuff is really messed up. Bloodraven (who I guess isn't really in the show) is a sketchy dude. Bran is a sketchy dude. Just kinda says weird **** and stares blankly. Nobody bothers to ask him why.

Jon never asked him WHY he chose to tell him about his lineage. Seemed to just make things worse....and helped himself out.

In hindsight Jon learning his lineage is probably what needed to happen. It gets people like Varys and Tyrion to rethink Dany as a ruler, which plants the seeds for getting Jon to do what needed to be done. He was BARELY able to do it as is... had he not had everyone pushing him to turn against Dany he might not have been able to do it as quickly as he did. So it speeded thigns along a bit.

Beyond that, he told Jon because Jon deserves to know the truth. It's the same reason Jon told Sansa and Arya. That's what family does, at least in the Stark household.

[XPac]

I just wanted to see Meera become Bran's queen

Yeah, if Meera is even still alive (honestly I would think the Walkers got to them) I imagine she can only imagine what MIGHT have been.

[MindofShadow]

If there's no Night Watch left, or at least not much of a Night Watcht then I suspect the idea might be for Jon to help rebuild it. I'm sure inevitably there will be more viable candidates sent up there overtime. And there might even be a few surviving Night Watch who might return to duty especially if Jon is up there.

In the short turn, the Nights Watch is probably Jon and the Free Folk. Now that they're on good terms, there's always at least a small standing army up there if needed.

Next person gets exiled to the wall

shows up sad

opens the door to castle black or whatever

it is a party! the cold keeps the beer cold lol

[MindofShadow]

Jon's parentage was basically a big waste of time TBH