Game of Thrones

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

The people of Kings Landing seemed to hate her based on the treatment she got from the walk of shame and Tyrion in the last episode said they hated her. Cersei did blow up a church that killed many innocent people in the process.

The fact Cersei held on to power after that is mind blowing to be Frank.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

He abused her constantly. Physically and emotionally. The only reason he didn't delve into "sexually" too, is because he needed to sell her off to someone else so that they could sexually abuse her.

She was able to conquer Khal Drogo, but if she had not? What a miserable existence she would have had.

The dude deserved exactly what he got.

"Keep her safe"- nonsense. She's a kept object. To be bought and sold.

I don't think you really know much about the Targaryens. GRRM pretty much said he never really expected to sell Dany off. Having to do that was actually one of the final insults for him because it was very much expected that if he got the Iron Throne back he would be king and she would be queen as their culture demanded. And Dany was totally cool with this as she actually wished she was older so that she could marry Rheagar (her other brother) and prevent him from seeking Lyanna and also thought her rightful place would have been to marry her nephew Aegon.

So when you say he used he rto be bought and sold, he was basically given an ultimatum by Illyrio who was their only real ally anymore that was saying "this is the only way you are getting an army to get your home back".

Again you have to understand that Viserys was basically a kid who was ran out of his home. Then had to hear stories about how his father, brother, and niece and nephew were all killed by usurpers. Then he had to spend his life dragging around his baby sister while Robert's spies were out to kill him and he had to go around begging for food and shelter to keep them alive. Then after years of that he grew resentful and was forced to give up more and more until the only real option was to get Dany to marry someone for an army, which was something that went against the entire way life he envisioned for himself. In fact, having to marry Dany off was stated by GRRM and the showrunners to be probably the lowest point for him because it was something he never wanted to do.

It's a lot more fleshed out and complicated than you are making it out to be.

[Divine Spark]

The fact Cersei held on to power after that is mind blowing to be Frank.

She also helped Joffrey get into power and we all know how that went.

[Bl00dwerK]

The fact Cersei held on to power after that is mind blowing to be Frank.

How is it mind-blowing? Everybody calls Jamie "Kingslayer" for killing a king everybody hated. Dude should have been hailed a hero.

[Flash Gordon]

I don't think you really know much about the Targaryens. GRRM pretty much said he never really expected to sell Dany off. Having to do that was actually one of the final insults for him because it was very much expected that if he got the Iron Throne back he would be king and she would be queen as their culture demanded. And Dany was totally cool with this as she actually wished she was older so that she could marry Rheagar (her other brother) and prevent him from seeking Lyanna and also thought her rightful place would have been to marry her nephew Aegon.

So when you say he used he rto be bought and sold, he was basically given an ultimatum by Illyrio who was their only real ally anymore that was saying "this is the only way you are getting an army to get your home back".

Again you have to understand that Viserys was basically a kid who was ran out of his home. Then had to hear stories about how his father, brother, and niece and nephew were all killed by usurpers. Then he had to spend his life dragging around his baby sister while Robert's spies were out to kill him and he had to go around begging for food and shelter to keep them alive. Then after years of that he grew resentful and was forced to give up more and more until the only real option was to get Dany to marry someone for an army, which was something that went against the entire way life he envisioned for himself. In fact, having to marry Dany off was stated by GRRM and the showrunners to be probably the lowest point for him because it was something he never wanted to do.

It's a lot more fleshed out and complicated than you are making it out to be.

We're discussing the show here.

Going off of the show, he is not even remotely good to her. She's very, very clearly abused at every turn.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

How is it mind-blowing? Everybody calls Jamie "Kingslayer" for killing a king everybody hated. Dude should have been hailed a hero.

She blew up a bunch of lords in the Sept, and stayed in power unchallenged.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I don't think you really know much about the Targaryens. GRRM pretty much said he never really expected to sell Dany off. Having to do that was actually one of the final insults for him because it was very much expected that if he got the Iron Throne back he would be king and she would be queen as their culture demanded. And Dany was totally cool with this as she actually wished she was older so that she could marry Rheagar (her other brother) and prevent him from seeking Lyanna and also thought her rightful place would have been to marry her nephew Aegon.

So when you say he used he rto be bought and sold, he was basically given an ultimatum by Illyrio who was their only real ally anymore that was saying "this is the only way you are getting an army to get your home back".

Again you have to understand that Viserys was basically a kid who was ran out of his home. Then had to hear stories about how his father, brother, and niece and nephew were all killed by usurpers. Then he had to spend his life dragging around his baby sister while Robert's spies were out to kill him and he had to go around begging for food and shelter to keep them alive. Then after years of that he grew resentful and was forced to give up more and more until the only real option was to get Dany to marry someone for an army, which was something that went against the entire way life he envisioned for himself. In fact, having to marry Dany off was stated by GRRM and the showrunners to be probably the lowest point for him because it was something he never wanted to do.

It's a lot more fleshed out and complicated than you are making it out to be.

Again You and XPac still never answered my question from before, what was Danni to do at this point of her life? At the time she wasn't in control of the Dothraki. She was basically a kid who had to fend for herself. She did what it took for her to survive.

[jtd]

The scene that showed Varis being executed was vital. The most important of the episode.

Why? It shows how Dany executes her inner circle who betray her.

Tyrion betrayed her.

Tyrion will survive the dragon flame.

Tyrion is a Targareon, son of the Mad King and heir to the throne.

[AndrewCrossett]

Varys was the only one of the deaths this week I didn't predict... he seemed like the consummate survivor. But I guess that title really belongs to Tyrion. Not sure he's going to live through next week, either.

I'm thinking it will end one of three ways: Arya gets caught trying to assassinate Dany, she orders Jon to prove his loyalty by executing her, and he kills Dany instead; Arya gets caught, Dany kills her with dragonfire and Jon kills Dany in revenge; or Bran wargs into Drogon and has him kill Dany. (The last one is unlikely, but I have a hard time believing that Bran's entire character arc led to just being bait for the Night King.)

Whatever happens, the people are NOT going to want any Targaryen as ruler, so Jon will go beyond the Wall and live out his days with the Wildlings. Gendry will become king and call a parliament which will be the first glimmers of democracy.

I don't trust that Euron is dead. He was still alive when last we saw him. Jamie seemed to shake off wounds that Euron thought were mortal (and may have been, eventually). He might do the same.

A lot of characters' story arcs seem to have just run out of time. Sam, Bran, Brienne, Yara, Bronn, Podrick, maybe Sansa... there may be room for a couple of them to get closure next week, but not all.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

You and XPac still never answered my question from before, what was Danni to do at this point of her life? At the time she wasn't in control of the Dothraki. She was basically a kid who had to fend for herself. She did what it took for her to survive

Cause it's irrelevant question. Dany literally did not have to be a conquerer at any point besides the feeling that her last name entitled her to something. Viserys who most of this thread is shitting on I actually understand because he was pretty much completely on his own and actually had people hunting him. After Ned got Robert to stop sending assassins to kill them (which was the middle of book one before Dany got her dragons) she literally could have just went back to Essos with Illyrio. She had 3 dragons she could have sold for a fortune and made a nice little life for herself. Hell she literally could have just ruled the slave cities in Essos where she at least had the people supporting her if she really needed to be a ruler.

Once she had Drogo under her spell she could have got him to spare Viserys. She relished in it though because she completely lost faith in him and was emboldened by Jorah who said he thought Viserys would be a terrible king. Hell she could have literally just been a Dothraki widow and would have never had to worry about life because she would have basically been honored with the other widows.

No Dany decided pretty early on once she stopped believing in Viserys that he wasn't going to cut it as king and that her and Drogo should conquer. Then she lost Drogo and decided to go at it herself when she no longer needed to. She had a choice to not be a conquerer.

[Bl00dwerK]

She blew up a bunch of lords in the Sept, and stayed in power unchallenged.

So? The people of King's Landing didn't go against the Mad King, either. Only reason he was ousted was due to Robert's rebellion and Jamie stabbing him to death.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

I was surprised that the prophecy didn't come true. When Cersei and Jaime were trapped, I felt sure that he would kill her to spare her the pain of being crushed or burned. The prophecy would be fulfilled, but it would be an act of mercy. Instead they just die.

You know what? I'm not even surprised. People were stupid to believe that. The way D&D started to write the show I knew they would pull something like this. Cause you know subvert expectations or something?

[XPac]

She's always had that brutal streak to her. But it's one thing to look at an enemy ruler in the face and sentence them, and another to massacre civilians to make a point after soldiers had surrendered. That we've never seen. Burn tyrants but liberate the people was always her angle. They could have given her a much better reason to express that brutality at a cost. As of now it's not really apparent.

I think the point is there wasn't a reason she did what she did... she just lost it. A lot of people she cared about died or betrayed her or both in a very very short window of time. Her actions weren't justifiable... but they were understandable from a certain perspective.

[Hellion]

To all the people who refused to believe Dany would go full-blown Mad Queen: Shame! Shame! Shame! Varys died for your sins.

The only scene that genuinely surprised me tonight was this exchange:

Qyburn: "Ser Gregor, get back here at once!"
The Mountain: "You can't tell me how to live my life, dad!"

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

We're discussing the show here.

Going off of the show, he is not even remotely good to her. She's very, very clearly abused at every turn.

The backstory of the books is the exact same for the show. And these are all sentiments the showrunners have described as well and was used in promotional material for the early seasons. You're basing your entire opinion off the surface level which was meant to portray it from a perspective that was more sympathetic to Dany because you saw the tail end of Viserys decent and didn't see the part where he was basically playing dad to her. Which was the point. Surface level: he's a bad dude. Deeper context: a lot happened before that to get to that point and Dany does not survive without him.