Game of Thrones

[XPac]

Referring to when you said



Except according to book readers Dani turn was building to an obvious outcome.

Well, the outcome clearly wasn't obvious to the people surprised by her heel turn.

But like I said in an earlier response, I think ideally you don't want the outcome to be obvious. At the same time, you don't want it completely out of nowhere. It's a tricky balancing act, as the moment potentially is ruined if you go too far one way or the other.

[TriggerWarning]

All of Dany’s kills up until that point have been justifiable. I don’t know where you’re getting this delusional fantasy that she’s been just like her brother this whole time. It’s not supported by anything.

Many were not even remotely justifiable.

She killed a bunch of "slave" owners at random in a retaliatory act without bothering to find out if they actually deserved it or not. Then come to find out at least one of those "slave" owners was actually a very good man who didn't deserve death. He only owned slaves in the most technical sense as he "bought" his slaves to save them from other owners and then basically freed them. They stayed working for him because he paid them and treated them well. He had no power to end slavery but he did what he could to make things right in his own small way. He died because Dany was mad.

After being taken captive by Dothraki again around season 5 or so she murdered a bunch of Dothraki for following their customs and laws and not bending the knee to her even though there was no reason they should.

She killed the Tarly's against the advice or Jorah and her other advisors for not bending the knee. Her advisors suggested they be allowed to take the black which was customary in Westeros but she killed them out of spite.

Her first instinct has always been to "burn em all" which is Viserys all over again. She just unlike Viserys sometimes listened to reason rather than give into her bloodlust. Rhaegar seemingly is the only one of the three Mad King's children who was a decent person and that was passed on to Jon.

[TriggerWarning]

Still, if this were not the final season sure... things might have slowed down. Though again, I don't think they necessarily want to make Danys ultimate fate too obvious... you want some shock value there for effect, even if you simotanously want to foreshadow. It's a tricky balance.

This is what I've been saying. If they'd foreshadowed Ned's beheading or the Red Wedding they wouldn't have had the viewer effect they did. As you say, its a tricky balance between shock value and too much foreshadowing. I'd actually say Dany's heel turn was far more foreshadowed than the prior two things as its been hinted at since the beginning. If it wasn't for the fact that every book reader already knew the first two were coming they'd probably be hated too because they supposedly came out of nowhere.

[Reverse Happy]

[Starter Set]

No one thinks what Dany did is okay

Well, vae victis you know.

I mean, that show has been nothing but awful people doing awful things for 8 seasons. Why the sudden shock now?

That's the fate of a taken city, to be at the mercy of its conquerors. Blind orgy of killing, burning, looting, rapes, the innocent people of poor King's Landing wouldn't have had a very good time anyway.

[Midvillian1322]

This is what I've been saying. If they'd foreshadowed Ned's beheading or the Red Wedding they wouldn't have had the viewer effect they did. As you say, its a tricky balance between shock value and too much foreshadowing. I'd actually say Dany's heel turn was far more foreshadowed than the prior two things as its been hinted at since the beginning. If it wasn't for the fact that every book reader already knew the first two were coming they'd probably be hated too because they supposedly came out of nowhere.

Character being killed our of nowhere isnt the same as a character making a drastic heel turn. If there was no foreshadowing of Danys turn it would seem ridiculous. But you don't need to foreshadow a character being killed alot of the time you dont. One involves character development the other is just a shock death and the scenario leading to it is all that has to be set up. Which both were set up well. Neither stark tragedy felt forced or implausible. Felt like something that can happen. No Dany going evil with no signs of it prior would be awful. Shes been mostly good but shes had moments that were questionable that allow this to work.

[Punisher007]

The kids who helped kill her mother, brother, and all their men? And calling them kids is a misnomer as they were full grown men who assisted in the murders of the Starks. Thats justice not murder which is what Daenerys did when she torched Kings Landing.

That's the point, beforehand we only really saw Dany kill threats to her or people who betrayed her or people who "deserved it." So if we're going to go "well Dany suddenly snaps and starts murdering innocent women and children at random, despite being appalled by that notion before," then it's fair to say that the same could apply to Arya. The point is, this writing was rushed and poorly-done.

Foreshadowing is NOT proper character development in an of itself.

[Punisher007]

Robb and Catelyn were the good guys who made the mistake of trusting the bad guys. The valid comparison is Dany to Tywin, Walder, and Roose.

You're missing my point. Morality has nothing to do with it, we SAW the build-up to those actions and the choices made and why they were made and how things could have gone differently. There was proper buildup to all of that.

Not so with Dany, the writing contrived it so that this was the ONLY way to go, but there wasn't proper-buildup to it.

[XPac]

That's the point, beforehand we only really saw Dany kill threats to her or people who betrayed her or people who "deserved it." So if we're going to go "well Dany suddenly snaps and starts murdering innocent women and children at random, despite being appalled by that notion before," then it's fair to say that the same could apply to Arya. The point is, this writing was rushed and poorly-done.

Foreshadowing is NOT proper character development in an of itself.

Dany hasn't necessarily murdered innocent people (at least that we know of) in the past... but she has flat out threatened to do exactly what she ended up doing. If Arya in the past had threatened to murder innocent people in the past too, it would probably be less shocking if she ended up doing it now.

But when you say it COULD apply to anyone sure... anyone who has suffered a lot in theory can snap. In theory. Arya was able to keep it together mostly, while Dany was not. That was the difference.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Even, if we dismiss the Dani drama there's still alot of other issues with the show too. Frankly, I think people are too focused on that, most don't even care Dani did what she did. It was how it was executed that put people off. But people forgot about the other issues people had dating back to season 5.

[XPac]

Even, if we dismiss the Dani drama there's still alot of other issues with the show too. Frankly, I think people are too focused on that, most don't even care Dani did what she did. It was how it was executed that put people off. But people forgot about the other issues people had dating back to season 5.

I've seen enough GoT reactions on Youtube to know that plenty of people actually do care Dany did what she did.

But certainly, the execution could have been better and the season as a whole was rushed. I think we can all agree with that.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Prior to S8 E5, Dany and Arya’s kills are comparable in terms of justification.



For starters, they could have given more thought to the events leading up to her downfall. Having Missandei get captured and killed and Rhagal get killed all in the same episode is too fast. There was very little focus on how these things impacted Dany. We had maybe 2-3 scenes of her being sad or angry over it. Dany’s descent would have been more meaningful if we could have seen it play out over an entire season.

The difference is Arya only had a specific group of people that she targeted and only deviated IF she was forced to (someone attacked her). Dany has been saying she will burn down and trample cities pretty much all show. She’s said it about virtually every city she has been associated with on the show.

This isn’t a new thing with her. Jorah and Tyrion talked her down multiple times over the course of the show

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

You're missing my point. Morality has nothing to do with it, we SAW the build-up to those actions and the choices made and why they were made and how things could have gone differently. There was proper buildup to all of that.

Not so with Dany, the writing contrived it so that this was the ONLY way to go, but there wasn't proper-buildup to it.

Just for posterity sake in the books we don’t get that. Robb’s marriage happens off page and Catelyn finds out well after the fact and then we get no indication that Roose Bolton had betrayed them. In the show it’s alot more telegraphed as we see Robb break his oath and we see little cryptic scenes of Tywin writing letters and Roose acting sketchy.

[Jabare]

I wonder how most viewers feel about this season.

Right now youtube is annoyingly curating me tons of Game of Thrones complaint videos, but it also did the same thing for Captain Marvel and that made a billion dollars so..........

[XPac]

I wonder how most viewers feel about this season.

Right now youtube is annoyingly curating me tons of Game of Thrones complaint videos, but it also did the same thing for Captain Marvel and that made a billion dollars so..........

It's hard to say. I would guess for the CASUAL viewer who isn't a hardcore fan, the season is still fun to the point of being very watchable. We had 2 major battle episodes in Winterfall and Kings Landing. The show is still visually stunning with high production values, and the performances by the actors is still strong.

My overall guessing being I think they might feel there's a decline in the shows overall quality because things might be rushed, but it's not ruined. It's still probably prettier and more exciting than most other things on TV at the moment. Or at least that would be my guess. Again, hard to say.