Game of Thrones

[The_Greatest_Username]

The kids who helped kill her mother, brother, and all their men? And calling them kids is a misnomer as they were full grown men who assisted in the murders of the Starks. Thats justice not murder which is what Daenerys did when she torched Kings Landing.

All of Dany’s kills up until that point have been justifiable. I don’t know where you’re getting this delusional fantasy that she’s been just like her brother this whole time. It’s not supported by anything.

[XPac]

The Arya who kills a man's kids, bakes them into a pie, and then feeds them to him, before smiling as she slits his throat and watches him die. The Arya who poisons and entire house, watches them die, and then walks away with a look of satisfaction on her face. The Arya who threatens to kill her own sister, etc.

So if we go "well Dany has been brutal and ruthless at times, and all of her equal if not more acts of mercy and kindness don't matter, she's just crazy," then the same can be said of Arya.

But Arya is the showrunners pet character, so of course it "doesn't count" for her.

Arya killed a bunch of murderers. You can argue that's wrong, but it's hardly comparable to murdering hundred or perhaps even thousands of innocent women and children. Arya wants revenge yes... but she's not nuts. THe fact that she was able to walk away from her vendetta against Cersi while Dany ended up destroying an entire city over it illustrates the difference pretty clearly.

[The_Greatest_Username]

Arya killed a bunch of murderers. You can argue that's wrong, but it's hardly comparable to murdering hundred or perhaps even thousands of innocent women and children. Arya wants revenge yes... but she's not nuts. THe fact that she was able to walk away from her vendetta against Cersi while Dany ended up destroying an entire city over it illustrates the difference pretty clearly.

No one thinks what Dany did is okay. The problem is there was no proper build up to it. She went from only killing her enemies to murdering innocents by the thousands over the course of two episodes.

[XPac]

So most of my predictions before the season were off so now I'm doubling down with a new set of predictions.

Dany dies though I'm not sure if its Jon or Arya who does it. The turning point is when Dany decides to go after Winterfell and Sansa for not bending the knee. Either way Jon then goes into self imposed exile to the north to live with the Wildlings. This was heavily foreshadowed in his last conversation with with Tormund.

Tyrion and Sansa remarry (were they ever really divorced?) and rule together for political reasons.

I'd go Jon over Arya simply because I don't think it's fair that Arya get to kill BOTH Night King and Dany. Jon has to get ONE in there.

Technically Winterfell already bent the knee... though odds are pretty good Jon will be unbending it pretty soon.

[XPac]

No one thinks what Dany did is okay. The problem is there was no proper build up to it. She went from only killing her enemies to murdering innocents by the thousands over the course of two episodes.

I'm not arguing against someone saying what Dany did was okay. I'm arguing against someone comparing Arya's actions to Danys. Yes, they both killed people but there's a darn good reason people are a LOT harder on Dany than Arya and it's not because she's the show runners pet.

As far as build up goes... what build is is there showing someone snapping. When you watch on the news some allededly bullied high school kid shooting a dozen kids in school, did he shoot just 1-2 the prior week to build up to it? Probably not. You can see signs that something is WRONG with that person (and you did see that in Dany in the initial part of the episode), but as far as kills go no she doesn't start killing a smaller number of innocent lives before ramping up. She freaking snapped. That can happen with minimal warning.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Ok, but what's his excuse AFTER the battle of winterfell? Cant have your cake and eat it too. Cause people are arguing that the bitch went crazy after episode 4 soooooo. Truth of the matter is that Jon is just basically a walking plot device no matter what he ends up doing. He's had so little agency this season it's just doesn't matter what he does. I don't know how you could have fixed it, his arc imo was unofficially over after episode 3. The irony is that after all of this zigzagging plot, his path became predictable anyway. Meh.

A lot of Jon stans are upset about this, I think he'll play a part in the final episode cause he HAS to. But I don't expect it to be anything other than stopping Dani. That's basically what he's around for now and nothing else.

[The_Greatest_Username]

I'm not arguing against someone saying what Dany did was okay. I'm arguing against someone comparing Arya's actions to Danys. Yes, they both killed people but there's a darn good reason people are a LOT harder on Dany than Arya and it's not because she's the show runners pet.

Prior to S8 E5, Dany and Arya’s kills are comparable in terms of justification.

As far as build up goes... what build is is there showing someone snapping. When you watch on the news some allededly bullied high school kid shooting a dozen kids in school, did he shoot just 1-2 the prior week to build up to it? Probably not. You can see signs that something is WRONG with that person (and you did see that in Dany in the initial part of the episode), but as far as kills go no she doesn't start killing a smaller number of innocent lives before ramping up. She freaking snapped. That can happen with minimal warning.

For starters, they could have given more thought to the events leading up to her downfall. Having Missandei get captured and killed and Rhagal get killed all in the same episode is too fast. There was very little focus on how these things impacted Dany. We had maybe 2-3 scenes of her being sad or angry over it. Dany’s descent would have been more meaningful if we could have seen it play out over an entire season.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I'm not arguing against someone saying what Dany did was okay. I'm arguing against someone comparing Arya's actions to Danys. Yes, they both killed people but there's a darn good reason people are a LOT harder on Dany than Arya and it's not because she's the show runners pet.

As far as build up goes... what build is is there showing someone snapping. When you watch on the news some allededly bullied high school kid shooting a dozen kids in school, did he shoot just 1-2 the prior week to build up to it? Probably not. You can see signs that something is WRONG with that person (and you did see that in Dany in the initial part of the episode), but as far as kills go no she doesn't start killing a smaller number of innocent lives before ramping up. She freaking snapped. That can happen with minimal warning.

Snapping isn't the same as going mad tho, I feel that people are getting the two confused. I wouldn't doubt that's how it's written in universe tho. If I'm to take anything from that, it's that history is biased. Ned's battle with Auther Dayne proved that. So I'm guessing that the prequel show will do the same with the history of the WW and the children of the forest.....we hope lol.

[XPac]

Prior to S8 E5, Dany and Arya’s kills are comparable in terms of justification.



For starters, they could have given more thought to the events leading up to her downfall. Having Missandei get captured and killed and Rhagal get killed all in the same episode is too fast. There was very little focus on how these things impacted Dany. We had maybe 2-3 scenes of her being sad or angry over it. Dany’s descent would have been more meaningful if we could have seen it play out over an entire season.

I think things happening so fast actually makes Dany losing it more justifiable. If she had more time to process and deal with the loss, she might not have done what she did. She didn't get the time she needed to deal with her own emotions, and they spilled over into the invasion. This just happened... it's raw. She doesn't have anyone close to her helping her to cope with her loses, since the ONLY person right now in the position to do so basically turned down hooking up with his aunt. That was relatively new too... if they had more time they could possibly deal with that too, but they didn't.

Still, if this were not the final season sure... things might have slowed down. Though again, I don't think they necessarily want to make Danys ultimate fate too obvious... you want some shock value there for effect, even if you simotanously want to foreshadow. It's a tricky balance.

[Theleviathan]

So much of the angst is built on "this is what I thought the character was building to" but that is exactly the sort of thing GRRM liked to twist on itself. People are sad they aren't getting the ending they wanted and that is the wrong way to think about it.

I'm not saying I'll like how the ending is handled, but I'm striving not to "want" anything in particular.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Meanwhile at the neck....

"Dad? Haven't you got any of the messages from Winterfell?!" Meera exclaimed

"Nope!" Howland said, while chewing on a frog loudly

"Half the starks are dead. There were multiple wars, including a fight with the undead. Dragons, ALL KINDS OF **** DAD!! WHERE WERE YOU?!"

Howland looked at her in shock, half a frog leg sticking out his mouth, "Whaaaat?"

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

So much of the angst is built on "this is what I thought the character was building to" but that is exactly the sort of thing GRRM liked to twist on itself. People are sad they aren't getting the ending they wanted and that is the wrong way to think about it.

I'm not saying I'll like how the ending is handled, but I'm striving not to "want" anything in particular.

Considering that he suposedly is building to Dany going mad I find this hilarious.

[Theleviathan]

Considering that he suposedly is building to Dany going mad I find this hilarious.

How so? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

How so? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Referring to when you said

So much of the angst is built on "this is what I thought the character was building to" but that is exactly the sort of thing GRRM liked to twist on itself.

Except according to book readers Dani turn was building to an obvious outcome.

[Theleviathan]

Referring to when you said



Except according to book readers Dani turn was building to an obvious outcome.

It can still be a twist and seeds can be planted. I think show-watchers have really bought into Dany as the hero of this story. Maybe the medium of television has made that more pronounced, but I think it can be true that this has been building and it be a twist of the knife to expectations.

GRRM is also quite forward that much of the prophecy and foreshadowing in his books is deliberately nonsense with no purpose. That should factor too, I think. Personally, I think anyone arguing this is the "obvious" way of going is overstating it.