Game of Thrones

[Kirby101]

Jon's sense of honor would probably prevent him from returning to Winderfell unless he absolutely needed to for some reason.

Plus, I honestly think he's happy in the North anyways. Aside form visiting Sansa what would he even do in Winterfell? I honestly think he'd get bored.

Good points.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Good points.

Also Jon at the Wall can still take assignments to go down to Westeros. Benjen did and Thorne traveled to KL in the books.

I think the point is that he’s living with wildlings now though

[Star_Jammer]

Total I believe.

500 people watching episode 1 and the same 500 people watching episode 2 doesn’t mean 1,000 people watched episodes 1 and 2.

[Kirby101]

Also Jon at the Wall can still take assignments to go down to Westeros. Benjen did and Thorne traveled to KL in the books.

I think the point is that he’s living with wildlings now though

About that. What happen there. Did the Night Watch arrange that and contact the Wildings? Were they waiting for him since they went north? (all those children there) Did Jon know they would be there for him. Is he even still in the Night Watch?

[Divine Spark]

500 people watching episode 1 and the same 500 people watching episode 2 doesn’t mean 1,000 people watched episodes 1 and 2.

My bad. I meant this.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...airs-week.html

[Star_Jammer]

My bad. I meant this.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...airs-week.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety...203207604/amp/

Episode 1 of Season 8 apparently hit 38 million viewers.

Far cry from 1 billion still.

[Hellion]

HBO submitted the series finale to the Emmy's for best writing. Good to know they've got a sense of humor!

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

About that. What happen there. Did the Night Watch arrange that and contact the Wildings? Were they waiting for him since they went north? (all those children there) Did Jon know they would be there for him. Is he even still in the Night Watch?

Jon’s pretty much a hero to the

-Northerners because he was their king and ousted Ransay.

-Wildlings for bringing them over the Wall and defending them

-The NW because he accomplished their primary mission and was LC

Any of those factions would be more than cool with Jon living with Wildlings and not being stuck at the Wall. He can just be an indefinite ranger traveling the Land of Always Winter. I think it’s implied that the Wildlings were still at the Wall and Jon was slated to go with them.

[Master Planner]

HBO submitted the series finale to the Emmy's for best writing. Good to know they've got a sense of humor!

They must confused GoT with Chernobyl!!!

[Hellion]

I know the Dany "Mad Queen" turn has been discussed to death, but the further I get into my series rewatch, the more the signs and portents were there. We see Grey Worm and Missandei wholeheartedly support Dany's "work" in Essos, advocating for the ruthless slaughter of all the former slave masters while Tyrion tries to promote peace with them. Dany brutally wipes out the entire upper level of the Dothraki class pyramid and assumes control over the entire people, with one presuming they're only following her because she promises to be a superior conqueror compared to their old leadership.

The most interesting detail that struck me during this rewatch is the scenes with the red priests/priestesses in Essos. Kinvara champions Dany because she claims her dragons will purify thousands of souls, souls of nonbelievers. Now, this could be "purifying" all the wights her dragons roasted or else a reference to the Lannister soldiers and citizens of King's Landing that Drogon obliterated. The priests of the Lord of Light believe Dany is the prophesied savior...but she is killed by Jon, who was brought back from the dead by another red priest.

Is this just an instance of the show's terrible writing, or is it meant to be a critique of religion in general that pretty much every follower of the Lord of Light has been wrong about their beliefs, at least so far as Azor Ahai/Prince-or-Princess-That-Was-Promised is concerned? Dany was obviously not the promised savior (and with her death, it is highly likely that Slaver's Bay will revert back to slavery and that the Dothraki will revert back to their tribalism). Jon was indeed a prince, and he saved the world from Mad Queen Dany, but he didn't do much against the Night King and the Army of the Dead. Stannis was mistaken for a savior. The only things Melisandre was right about were her prophecies about Arya and Varys.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The point of prophecy in both the books and the show is that it is often wrong. For instance Jon actually does fulfill the Azor Ahai prophecy in the show. It's just very different than the order and how it's described.

The prophecy is that a hero will forge the sword light bringer by plunging it into the heart of his beloved and then will use that power to go on to defeat the Great Other. In the show, Jon gathers and leads the army that ultimately defeats the Others (White Walkers in the show), then he stick's a knife in his lovers heart, then all the swords in the Iron Throne burn red and become unforged with dragonfire. So it's basically that prophecy almost in reverse and shows that the interpretation was off from what everyone thought it was. Like most people were expecting something like Jamie killing Cersei and it creates Lightbringer and then he goes on to defeat the Others. Because that would be a traditional understanding of what everyone believes the prophecy to be. But of course it's not correct.

A similar thing happens with Melisandre predicts that Renly would defeat Stannis at King's Landing. This makes Stannis use the shadow demon to kill Renly to stop that. However at King's Landing, Renly's army has sided with Tywin and they still defeat Stannis under Renly's banner and name and Garlan Tyrell wears Renly's armor in his honor and to scare the troops of Stannis into thinking they are facing Renly's ghost. So the vision came true in an unexpected way.

Likewise Stannis had a role to play. His army saved the Night's Watch and Jon Snow from the wildling invasion. Without that, Jon is dead and the NW is dead and the realm has no shot at beating the White Walkers.

There are many instances in the show where Dany's turn is heavily alluded to and certain behavioral patterns pop out and I think more and more will become apparent as people rewatch. In the books it's even worse because people have been predicting her being evil for quite awhile (granted they also thought Bran would be) based off some questionable actions and behaviors.

One interesting point I saw someone bring up was how a small change in Tyrion's arc screwed up a significant piece of what could happen in the show. The show mentiones in the books that Tyrion's first wife was revealed to be a whore that was using him and that Tywin had all his men rape her (and in the books Tyrion rapes her too) and she flees. When Jamie rescues Tyrion from his execution, Jamie tells him that Tysha (his wife) was actually who she appeared to be and Tywin forced a lie so his son wouldn't be married to a commoner. This makes Tyrion hate Jamie and vengeful and spiteful. When he goes to Essos he is absolutely vile. Very dark. His judgment is clouded and he wants revenge and is obsessed with Tysha. Tyrion is supposed to be extremely dark, hateful and self loathing when he is making his way to Dany. It makes sense that book Tyrion would overlook a lot of Dany's dark side when he finally meets her because he is in a dark place too. Then as Tyrion starts to forgive himself and his family and Jamie when he assists at Winterfell he would come to his senses and start seeing the terrible thing he brought to Westeros. And then you get a Tyrion who starts losing his place with Dany because he is now trying to avoid this dangerous person destroying his family and his country and is almost self sabotaging. Also a lot of this is guess work but it kind of makes sense in where Tyrion is at. In the show it just comes off as Tyrion making a bunch of tactile errors and having poor judgement on Dany from the beginning

[titanfan]

HBO submitted the series finale to the Emmy's for best writing. Good to know they've got a sense of humor!

It's one of the most 'talky' episodes. It was either that one or one of the first two...

[TriggerWarning]

I know the Dany "Mad Queen" turn has been discussed to death, but the further I get into my series rewatch, the more the signs and portents were there. We see Grey Worm and Missandei wholeheartedly support Dany's "work" in Essos, advocating for the ruthless slaughter of all the former slave masters while Tyrion tries to promote peace with them. Dany brutally wipes out the entire upper level of the Dothraki class pyramid and assumes control over the entire people, with one presuming they're only following her because she promises to be a superior conqueror compared to their old leadership.

The most interesting detail that struck me during this rewatch is the scenes with the red priests/priestesses in Essos. Kinvara champions Dany because she claims her dragons will purify thousands of souls, souls of nonbelievers. Now, this could be "purifying" all the wights her dragons roasted or else a reference to the Lannister soldiers and citizens of King's Landing that Drogon obliterated. The priests of the Lord of Light believe Dany is the prophesied savior...but she is killed by Jon, who was brought back from the dead by another red priest.

Is this just an instance of the show's terrible writing, or is it meant to be a critique of religion in general that pretty much every follower of the Lord of Light has been wrong about their beliefs, at least so far as Azor Ahai/Prince-or-Princess-That-Was-Promised is concerned? Dany was obviously not the promised savior (and with her death, it is highly likely that Slaver's Bay will revert back to slavery and that the Dothraki will revert back to their tribalism). Jon was indeed a prince, and he saved the world from Mad Queen Dany, but he didn't do much against the Night King and the Army of the Dead. Stannis was mistaken for a savior. The only things Melisandre was right about were her prophecies about Arya and Varys.

Yep. Its quite obvious what they were leading up to and the turn isn't really that surprising.

I think whats got people in arms is that for many she was their favorite character and seeing her go heel is upsetting. I do sorta get the argument that it could have used more plot development but at the same time it would have lost its shock value. Just like the Red Wedding wouldn't have been as good if we'd seen scenes in prior episodes of Walder Frey talking with Tywin Lannister and Roose Bolton.

What frustrates me most about it though is how some try to claim the show was unfair to women by making the woman go evil. Were they watching the same show? The one where Arya, not Jon, saved the world from the Nightking? The one where Arya, not Jon, avenged the Stark's by killing the Frey's? The one where Arya, not Jon, got to decide her own ending.

[motherofpearl1]

Yep. Its quite obvious what they were leading up to and the turn isn't really that surprising.

I think whats got people in arms is that for many she was their favorite character and seeing her go heel is upsetting. I do sorta get the argument that it could have used more plot development but at the same time it would have lost its shock value. Just like the Red Wedding wouldn't have been as good if we'd seen scenes in prior episodes of Walder Frey talking with Tywin Lannister and Roose Bolton.

What frustrates me most about it though is how some try to claim the show was unfair to women by making the woman go evil. Were they watching the same show? The one where Arya, not Jon, saved the world from the Nightking? The one where Arya, not Jon, avenged the Stark's by killing the Frey's? The one where Arya, not Jon, got to decide her own ending.

As a woman I'm actually mad at this.
Love or hate GoT there wasn't a single weak female character in it, Sansa could have qualified but as Arya said she had the strength of a survivor.

I've recently been rewatching the whole series, and there was a prophetic moment where Jorah is telling Tyrion about Dany's determination to take back her Kingdom and Tyrion points out that they'd be exchanging one tyrant for another. The seeds of her ultimately turning 'dark' were there all along.

For me the most unsatisfying part of 8 was the demise of the Lannister twins. Jaime should have lived, because he was just beginning his redemption. And why oh why did the ultimate female dog Cersei get such a lame send off when so many of the show's other villains, from Ramsey Bolton to Walder Frey thoroughly get their just desserts?
Now THAT was bad writing. Yet all everyone moans about is Dany becoming what she was meant to be all along.

[Starter Set]

I think whats got people in arms is that for many she was their favorite character and seeing her go heel is upsetting.

Only things who got people in arms are how poorly it was made and bad the writing was. Nothing new with Danny killing people or with her showing how despotic she can be. We have seen that stuff already and that's not what bother most people.

But how it was displayed in that season was amateurish at best.