Game of Thrones

[AndrewCrossett]

Do you think Davos will survive this season? It'll burn my waffles if he doesn't.

Davos is a diplomat, and I expect he will be the one to bring Dany and Jon together. Whether he dies after that I don't know. I fully expect at least half of the featured characters will purchase the plantation before the series ends.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Stannis,as much as he tried to rationalise it,wants the throne as a chance to remove himself of Robert's shadow.He would never tried to claim the throne is Robert's children were his,but now that he knows about the incest,he will stop at nothing because for the first time in his life,fate gave him a chance to finally claim a spot for himself.Add the messianic nonsense of Mel,Stannis had a big boost of ego.Besides,Baratheon are the rightful owners of the Iron Throne due to conquest.So, i couldn't see Stannis bending the knee to Danny.Still,i hope that in books they will have a moment or at least,news about each other.The potentials are endless.

There's a little snag in that. In the books, don't know if it was touched on in the shows. The Baratheons and Targaryens were closely related to the point where Robert referred to Rheagar as a cousin. So when Aery's and Rheagar died, and Dany and Visery's were missing, there was a point where Robert could legitimately claim he was the closest remaining heir. Ned said it was bs, but a good excuse. Otherwise, there was no reason for Ned or Jon Aryn to not take the thrown. Especially Ned since his father, brother, and sister died in the conflict and he was in King's Landing when it fell. Jamie wasn't wrong when he said that Ned could have just climbed the thrown that day and claimed it and nobody would have challenged him.

[Master Planner]

There's a little snag in that. In the books, don't know if it was touched on in the shows. The Baratheons and Targaryens were closely related to the point where Robert referred to Rheagar as a cousin. So when Aery's and Rheagar died, and Dany and Visery's were missing, there was a point where Robert could legitimately claim he was the closest remaining heir. Ned said it was bs, but a good excuse. Otherwise, there was no reason for Ned or Jon Aryn to not take the thrown. Especially Ned since his father, brother, and sister died in the conflict and he was in King's Landing when it fell. Jamie wasn't wrong when he said that Ned could have just climbed the thrown that day and claimed it and nobody would have challenged him.

In the aftermath of King's Landing sacking by the Lannisters,the Throne was open for anyone.Robert was choosen because his grandmother was a Targaryen,so except being the face of the rebellion,him on throne gave the necessary legitimacy for Westeros stability.Except that,Baratheon are distant relatives of Targaryens,considering that Orys Baratheon was rumored to be the bastard brother of Aegon the Conqueror.So the link between the 2 houses are quite strong.


Unfortunately,the show never played that info,except in DVD's extras and again i am not sure even if that info was in DVD collection.

[Coin Biter]

So far as Mel's messianic nonsense is concerned, the supernatural is not something that was hugely common in Westeros (at least south of the Wall). If a stunningly beautiful shadowbinder from Asshai with demonstrably supernatural powers comes to tell you that you are the chosen one, eventually (not at first) you might be tempted to take her seriously, even if you're as cynical about religion as Stannis If the Archbishop of Canterbury looked like Mel and conjured shadow babies, I can guarantee you that there would be quite a hefty uptake in Anglican conversion And at least in the books, Stannis only starts taking her visions seriously later - to start with he's far more interested in her power.

In any event, Mel may have been wrong about Stannis, but there is good reason to suppose that the prophecies she's working from are not completely off-base.

[AndrewCrossett]

Prophecies in fantasy stories are like security cams in police procedurals. A plot-convenience hack that's relied on way, way too much.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

In the aftermath of King's Landing sacking by the Lannisters,the Throne was open for anyone.Robert was choosen because his grandmother was a Targaryen,so except being the face of the rebellion,him on throne gave the necessary legitimacy for Westeros stability.Except that,Baratheon are distant relatives of Targaryens,considering that Orys Baratheon was rumored to be the bastard brother of Aegon the Conqueror.So the link between the 2 houses are quite strong.


Unfortunately,the show never played that info,except in DVD's extras and again i am not sure even if that info was in DVD collection.

I agree, but the person in the books who gives us that information is Ned. Ned later follows it up by saying that was Robert's claim but in truth he just stole it. Anybody could have taken at that point.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Prophecies in fantasy stories are like security cams in police procedurals. A plot-convenience hack that's relied on way, way too much.

Depends on how you use it. In a procedural the security cam is usually a get out of jail free card when there is no real answer to a mystery. If you lay down an expectation for a prophecy and follow it but use clever writing it's fine. For instance, in the books, Mel prophecized that Stannis would lose at Blackwater because Renly's army would defeat him. That prompted Stannis to kill Renly. The snag was, killing Renly gauranteed that his army sided with the Lannister's and later Renly's army defeated Stannis at Blackwater.

[AndrewCrossett]

If you're going to use prophecies, they have to be wrong occasionally. Just dead wrong, without explanation. Otherwise the very concept of human choice is lost... along with all my interest in the story.

When I write fantasy stories, I have two firm rules: no prophecies, and no Chosen Ones.

[JBatmanFan05]

If you're going to use prophecies, they have to be wrong occasionally. Just dead wrong, without explanation. Otherwise the very concept of human choice is lost... along with all my interest in the story.

When I write fantasy stories, I have two firm rules: no prophecies, and no Chosen Ones.

Oddly though, GoT excels at emphasizing choices and their consequences amid prophecies and Chosen Ones. They may or may not be wrong, but Melisandre darn sure has been wrong. GRRM cleverly set up his universe so far as a place where most everything is unclear and vague and open to interpretation and misinterpretation and coincidence. The show & books maintain this clever mystery about the truth of these deterministic teasings.

I've always noticed GoT is just Godfather writing and logic done in a fantasy world.

[Zodlike]

If you're going to use prophecies, they have to be wrong occasionally. Just dead wrong, without explanation. Otherwise the very concept of human choice is lost... along with all my interest in the story.

When I write fantasy stories, I have two firm rules: no prophecies, and no Chosen Ones.

If the prophecy is wrong, the subject of it (the Chosen One) is being deceived. It doesn't negate the subject's free will; it can just make them do the wrong thing by (false) choice.

When the 'villain' is portrayed as irredeemably evil, there is no problem; but the prophecy must by definition be an inversion of the 'reality' of the situation, so to speak, which means the fantasy epics that use this device and all of its tropes are telling subversive stories with themes designed to confuse and misinform the reader; about what the characters are supposed to represent, I mean.

# [I don't wish to derail this wonderful thread, I'm no expert on Game of Thrones, but as a long-time fantasy reader I had to reply to your insightful post, from one writer to another]. Thanks.

[mcgaffer]

I'd love to see a scene at the end where *whoever* is sat on the Iron Throne surrounded by all the high profile survivors and at the back of the room in the shadows Varys and Petyr are stood side by side, looking at the person on the throne when one of them hands the other a small bag of money and says "Alright, you win." Turns to go, stops and says "What about double or nothing?"

I want the Hound to meet back up with Arya this season and for the two of them to decide to team up and go after Cersei and the Mountain, believing they're what it takes to bring down the power crazy Beauty and the Beast. There's too much fire involved in fighting the White Walkers for the Hound to want too much of that battle.

[C_haos]

Littlefinger is the villain you really like to see because he's going out think you. I wouldn't be surprised if he has something in plan for the White Walkers too

[AndrewCrossett]

Only two weeks until Go Time. Getting psyched.

[Master Planner]

Littlefinger is the villain you really like to see because he's going out think you. I wouldn't be surprised if he has something in plan for the White Walkers too

Unfortunately,the current narrative of the series,put Baelish in a situation that it could be difficult to get out alive.I feel this season will clear(in a rush and clumpsy way)the Iron Throne plot and the politics of it so we can have a full Others vs Humanity 8th season.

[darewithpeace]

i just cant wait