Game of Thrones

[AndrewCrossett]

I wonder how most viewers feel about this season.

Right now youtube is annoyingly curating me tons of Game of Thrones complaint videos, but it also did the same thing for Captain Marvel and that made a billion dollars so..........

It's had the highest viewership numbers of any season, with every episode over 10 million viewers. "The Bells" was the most-watched episode ever, despite all the complaints about the previous 2 episodes. And I'm sure tomorrow's episode will top that. It's a fact that a lot of people enjoy complaining about their shows. And a show will stay in public discussion much longer if people are pissed off by how it ended.

My first big online fandom was Xena: Warrior Princess back in the 90's. The way the series finale ended was almost universally hated by the fandom... virtual pitchforks and torches. But the fandom remained strong for years as a result of that. A whole new genre of fanfiction developed dedicated to "fixing" the ending and telling what came after, and there was even a Virtual Seventh Season. If the show had had a pat happy ending, fans would have celebrated for a few weeks and then moved on to something else.

I expect something similar will happen with GoT, especially if GRRM never gets around to finishing the books.

[brettc1]

Just watched this weeks episode.

Wow.

So in the end, Daenerys is a crazy, mass-murdering bitch-monster who butchers more innocent people, including children, in one hour than Cersei Lannister has done in her entire career.

What a fucking joke.

Now it's just a race to see who gets to put the pyscho down. I'm hoping it's Arya. She still has the "evil queen" box to cross off her kill list.

[brettc1]

Well, vae victis you know.

I mean, that show has been nothing but awful people doing awful things for 8 seasons. Why the sudden shock now?

That's the fate of a taken city, to be at the mercy of its conquerors. Blind orgy of killing, burning, looting, rapes, the innocent people of poor King's Landing wouldn't have had a very good time anyway.

Yeah, except the city surrendered. When a city surrendered to the Mongols, they didnt kill everyone and burn it to the ground.

The fight was over. Dany just wanted to burn people to make herself feel better.

Jon Snow has never really done awful things. Or if he has folks will need to remind me, because I can't remember them.

[XPac]

Just watched this weeks episode.

Wow.

So in the end, Daenerys is a crazy, mass-murdering bitch-monster who butchers more innocent people, including children, in one hour than Cersei Lannister has done in her entire career.

What a fucking joke.

Now it's just a race to see who gets to put the pyscho down. I'm hoping it's Arya. She still has the "evil queen" box to cross off her kill list.

Arya would make sense, but I'm still betting on Jon to put her down. Arya already got the Night King.

[Arsenal]

Rushing to kill Dany when there’s no way to put down her Dragon seems like a really bad move. Sure, Jon might be able to calm him down eventually but I can’t see him doing nothing about it either.

[XPac]

Rushing to kill Dany when there’s no way to put down her Dragon seems like a really bad move. Sure, Jon might be able to calm him down eventually but I can’t see him doing nothing about it either.

If Bran can warg the dragon, that's one option for putting it down.

Though it's possible the Dragon might not even need to be put down. I can totally imagine the dragon just grabbig Dany's lifeless body and simply flying off into the sky for parts unknown never to be seen again ... doesn't entirely make sense, but fiction often does work that way.

[Captain M]

Rushing to kill Dany when there’s no way to put down her Dragon seems like a really bad move. Sure, Jon might be able to calm him down eventually but I can’t see him doing nothing about it either.

Knowing how stupid this season and the showrunners have been, drogon wont mind and will just fly away or something.

Its even stupid for the thousands of remaining dothraki and unsullied

[Master Planner]

Just watched this weeks episode.

Wow.

So in the end, Daenerys is a crazy, mass-murdering bitch-monster who butchers more innocent people, including children, in one hour than Cersei Lannister has done in her entire career.

What a fucking joke.

Now it's just a race to see who gets to put the pyscho down. I'm hoping it's Arya. She still has the "evil queen" box to cross off her kill list.

Cercei,in a way, paved the road that lead Danny into embracing "fire and blood" mentality. Also, i view the destruction of King's Landing as a message to Cercei. It's Daenerys way to tell "you kill my dragon and my most trusted friend, i would crush your kingdom before i crush you". Daenerys snapped hard and it was truly terrifing.

[Master Planner]

I wonder how most viewers feel about this season.

Right now youtube is annoyingly curating me tons of Game of Thrones complaint videos, but it also did the same thing for Captain Marvel and that made a billion dollars so..........

I ended up reading the books after season 1 and 2, so inevitably, i watched the rest of the show, making comparisons and how certain things were adapted. Putting aside some characters who were truly massacred or presented in a much inferior way than their book counterpart(Stannis, Renly, Loras, Doran Martel and Euron), my main problem is that after they couldn't rely on book material and had only a powerpoint of how the story would end for most of characters, D&D showed their weakness.Also, i feel that after the Red Wedding, they started to lose interest in their adaptation. It's clear that they wanted to end with GoT and move along. It's all over the show, after season 6, were the plot moved faster than usual. Season 7 and 8 feel so rushed and full of PIS, that everything feel underwhelming and not well earned. The war against White Walkers would work better, if we had 3-4 episodes for that, instead of one big battle that made all that hype about the War for the Dawn to look like a minor event. Also, Daenerys slip into madness felt rushed and while they were small signs, it didn't felt organic or well earned.

[SiegePerilous02]

Dany1.jpg

I find it funny that we're meant to view Dany's cold, detached watching of Viserys getting killed as foreshadowing that she would go mad when Sansa had pretty much the same look on her face when she killed Ramsey via hungry dogs. They were both their abusers and both 100% deserved it, but Sansa isn't Mad. Viserys was also stupid enough to do this in front of Drogo and Dany knew he was fucked, she couldn't protect him anymore and he was beyond her help anyway. Do people think she could stop her husband at that point?

Many were not even remotely justifiable.

She killed a bunch of "slave" owners at random in a retaliatory act without bothering to find out if they actually deserved it or not. Then come to find out at least one of those "slave" owners was actually a very good man who didn't deserve death. He only owned slaves in the most technical sense as he "bought" his slaves to save them from other owners and then basically freed them. They stayed working for him because he paid them and treated them well. He had no power to end slavery but he did what he could to make things right in his own small way. He died because Dany was mad.

After being taken captive by Dothraki again around season 5 or so she murdered a bunch of Dothraki for following their customs and laws and not bending the knee to her even though there was no reason they should.

She killed the Tarly's against the advice or Jorah and her other advisors for not bending the knee. Her advisors suggested they be allowed to take the black which was customary in Westeros but she killed them out of spite.

Her first instinct has always been to "burn em all" which is Viserys all over again. She just unlike Viserys sometimes listened to reason rather than give into her bloodlust. Rhaegar seemingly is the only one of the three Mad King's children who was a decent person and that was passed on to Jon.

I haven't watched the slave episodes in a while, and boy now I'm not really inclined to go back, so I can't comment on that one.

She took out the Dothraki leaders before they could take her out, as far as I'm concerned. Didn't they threaten her with gang rape? Are we meant to view her wiping them out as being worse than some of the other things the other heroes have done? They are a society built around raping and pillaging, they have no reason to do as she asks but they are not in the business of asking for things nicely, so whatever.

The Tarly's refused to take the Black when it was offered to them, so I guess Randyl thought he was too good to go despite forcing Same (who he was horribly abusive to) to go. Randyl also aided Cersei in taking out Dany's allies, he refused to bend the knee and refused the lifeline offered to him. Dany isn't here to make friends, she needs to send the message of her allies being avenged and she cannot appear weak, so this thoroughly unlikable character gets the fate he deserved. I feel Dickon was only written to die with him because if it was just Randyl nobody would bat an eye at what Dany did.

Let's also remember Jon Snow executed a 10 year old by hanging for betraying him. Dany was always more ruthless than him when she dispatched her enemies, but his hands aren't clean either. He's also been a useless wet fart this season. No wonder she looked pissed when Tormund was singing his praises to the Northmen, he didn't do **** in the zombie battle.

[XPac]

Dany1.jpg

I find it funny that we're meant to view Dany's cold, detached watching of Viserys getting killed as foreshadowing that she would go mad when Sansa had pretty much the same look on her face when she killed Ramsey via hungry dogs. They were both their abusers and both 100% deserved it, but Sansa isn't Mad. Viserys was also stupid enough to do this in front of Drogo and Dany knew he was fucked, she couldn't protect him anymore and he was beyond her help anyway. Do people think she could stop her husband at that point?




I haven't watched the slave episodes in a while, and boy now I'm not really inclined to go back, so I can't comment on that one.

She took out the Dothraki leaders before they could take her out, as far as I'm concerned. Didn't they threaten her with gang rape? Are we meant to view her wiping them out as being worse than some of the other things the other heroes have done? They are a society built around raping and pillaging, they have no reason to do as she asks but they are not in the business of asking for things nicely, so whatever.

The Tarly's refused to take the Black when it was offered to them, so I guess Randyl thought he was too good to go despite forcing Same (who he was horribly abusive to) to go. Randyl also aided Cersei in taking out Dany's allies, he refused to bend the knee and refused the lifeline offered to him. Dany isn't here to make friends, she needs to send the message of her allies being avenged and she cannot appear weak, so this thoroughly unlikable character gets the fate he deserved. I feel Dickon was only written to die with him because if it was just Randyl nobody would bat an eye at what Dany did.

Let's also remember Jon Snow executed a 10 year old by hanging for betraying him. Dany was always more ruthless than him when she dispatched her enemies, but his hands aren't clean either. He's also been a useless wet fart this season. No wonder she looked pissed when Tormund was singing his praises to the Northmen, he didn't do **** in the zombie battle.

There's a difference between Sansa being detatched while Ramsy died and Dany being detatched while her brother died. The obvious difference being that it was her brother. Not that he wasn't a jerk and that he didn't arguably deserve it... but in hindsight at least I can buy the line of thought that they were planting seeds about Dany all the way back then. Course, if Sansa ends up murdering a bunch of innocent women and children in the last episode then yeah... we can perhaps look back on her seen with Ramsy as foreshadowing too. Hindsight is always 20/20.

And Jon executed someone that freaking stabbed him in the heart. Again, not exactly the same thing.

As far as Jon being useless... certainly he didn't kill the Night King like many expected. But he is still the one responsible for basially all of them coming together to fight the Night King. He was able to rally together ALMOST everyone (Cersi being the hold out), and that deserves credit too even if he didn't get the killing blow. It's not as glamorous as what Arya did, but he still played arguably the most important role.

[brettc1]

Dany1.jpg

I find it funny that we're meant to view Dany's cold, detached watching of Viserys getting killed as foreshadowing that she would go mad when Sansa had pretty much the same look on her face when she killed Ramsey via hungry dogs. They were both their abusers and both 100% deserved it, but Sansa isn't Mad. Viserys was also stupid enough to do this in front of Drogo and Dany knew he was fucked, she couldn't protect him anymore and he was beyond her help anyway. Do people think she could stop her husband at that point?




I haven't watched the slave episodes in a while, and boy now I'm not really inclined to go back, so I can't comment on that one.

She took out the Dothraki leaders before they could take her out, as far as I'm concerned. Didn't they threaten her with gang rape? Are we meant to view her wiping them out as being worse than some of the other things the other heroes have done? They are a society built around raping and pillaging, they have no reason to do as she asks but they are not in the business of asking for things nicely, so whatever.

The Tarly's refused to take the Black when it was offered to them, so I guess Randyl thought he was too good to go despite forcing Same (who he was horribly abusive to) to go. Randyl also aided Cersei in taking out Dany's allies, he refused to bend the knee and refused the lifeline offered to him. Dany isn't here to make friends, she needs to send the message of her allies being avenged and she cannot appear weak, so this thoroughly unlikable character gets the fate he deserved. I feel Dickon was only written to die with him because if it was just Randyl nobody would bat an eye at what Dany did.

Let's also remember Jon Snow executed a 10 year old by hanging for betraying him. Dany was always more ruthless than him when she dispatched her enemies, but his hands aren't clean either. He's also been a useless wet fart this season. No wonder she looked pissed when Tormund was singing his praises to the Northmen, he didn't do **** in the zombie battle.

The boy Jon hanged had stabbed him in the heart a few days earlier. And yes, I believe the dothraki threaten to rape her and then have her raped by their horses. If they’d said that to a guy, nobody would be that upset if he killed them.

Jons done about as much as Dany. She didn’t do anything that useful in the zombie battle either.

But after burning children alive she is, in my eyes, irredeemable.

[SiegePerilous02]

There's a difference between Sansa being detatched while Ramsy died and Dany being detatched while her brother died. The obvious difference being that it was her brother. Not that he wasn't a jerk and that he didn't arguably deserve it... but in hindsight at least I can buy the line of thought that they were planting seeds about Dany all the way back then. Course, if Sansa ends up murdering a bunch of innocent women and children in the last episode then yeah... we can perhaps look back on her seen with Ramsy as foreshadowing too. Hindsight is always 20/20.

And Jon executed someone that freaking stabbed him in the heart. Again, not exactly the same thing.

As far as Jon being useless... certainly he didn't kill the Night King like many expected. But he is still the one responsible for basially all of them coming together to fight the Night King. He was able to rally together ALMOST everyone (Cersi being the hold out), and that deserves credit too even if he didn't get the killing blow. It's not as glamorous as what Arya did, but he still played arguably the most important role.

The boy Jon hanged had stabbed him in the heart a few days earlier. And yes, I believe the dothraki threaten to rape her and then have her raped by their horses. If they’d said that to a guy, nobody would be that upset if he killed them.

Jons done about as much as Dany. She didn’t do anything that useful in the zombie battle either.

But after burning children alive she is, in my eyes, irredeemable.

She's definitely irredeemable NOW and deserves whatever she gets, but even getting to this point is stupid or at least needed to be developed better over a longer period of time.

Reasoning aside, they both executed people for treason. Weren't the Tarly's the banner men of the Tyrell's, who were her allies, and they betrayed them in favor of Cersei? Doesn't that mean that they should have sworn loyalty to her through the Tyrell's?

Yeah, a bunch of big dudes threatening a girl with horse rape is a fast way to make me not care when they get burned.

IDK, during the battle itself Dany seemed more on the ball than Jon, not that that's saying much because there didn't seem to be a lot of strategy going into this period (yet most of them inexplicably survived). She also provided the dragons, which are the most useful weapons. He deserves credit for bringing them all together last season (despite the kidnapping a zombie plan he and Tyrion cooked up being incredibly stupid and ultimately pointless because Cersei just sat this one out), but hasn't done much this season besides say "She's my queen" or "Fall back!" in between bits of standing around with his mouth open. I feel bad for Harrington.



A

[Jackalope89]

She's definitely irredeemable NOW and deserves whatever she gets, but even getting to this point is stupid or at least needed to be developed better over a longer period of time.

Reasoning aside, they both executed people for treason. Weren't the Tarly's the banner men of the Tyrell's, who were her allies, and they betrayed them in favor of Cersei? Doesn't that mean that they should have sworn loyalty to her through the Tyrell's?

Yeah, a bunch of big dudes threatening a girl with horse rape is a fast way to make me not care when they get burned.

IDK, during the battle itself Dany seemed more on the ball than Jon, not that that's saying much because there didn't seem to be a lot of strategy going into this period (yet most of them inexplicably survived). She also provided the dragons, which are the most useful weapons. He deserves credit for bringing them all together last season (despite the kidnapping a zombie plan he and Tyrion cooked up being incredibly stupid and ultimately pointless because Cersei just sat this one out), but hasn't done much this season besides say "She's my queen" or "Fall back!" in between bits of standing around with his mouth open. I feel bad for Harrington.



A

While the Tarlys were sworn to the Tyrells, that was before the last living member, an old woman hell bent on revenge, decided to help bring a foreign invader and her army of raping, pillaging, barbarians and automaton slave soldiers to their shores. Basically, she had betrayed Westeros first. And can't forget the advice she gave to Dany, "Be a dragon." The words of someone who didn't care about the long term prospects of Westeros, so long as Cersei suffered.

So, yeah. Can't really hold that against the Tarlys.

Also, the dragons proved to be more than useless against the White Walkers. Not only were they immune to dragon fire, but had already killed and turned one dragon with little loss (what, a few wights? something more than easily replaced?).

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

I've seen enough GoT reactions on Youtube to know that plenty of people actually do care Dany did what she did.

But certainly, the execution could have been better and the season as a whole was rushed. I think we can all agree with that.

That's tricky. They care what she did because they think it's terribly written, not the act itself. There's people who hate the heel turn in general yes, but I don't think the people who hate it don't hate just because she goes bad. Like it was previously mentioned these same people tend to have other gripes with this season too apart from the bells. Hell go back and read old posts from this thread (They go all the way back to season 4). People predicted that a terrible conclusion was coming.