Game of Thrones

[XPac]

People are treating the idea of "kill the Night King and his army disintegrates" as something other than just speculation, and I think they may be mistaken in that. People don't die when their parents do. Why should the Walkers and wights require the NK's existence for their own? It would be very convenient for the NK to be the Death Star Ventilation Shaft of this story... but maybe too convenient to be true.

It may be that if they kill him, the Army of the Dead will become a hundred smaller armies of the dead under the command of the White Walkers, who will then maraud all over the North and eventually all over Westeros, leading to years of destruction before they can all be eradicated.

It sort of makes sense though. It's not like you and your parents... the Night King is magically animating these dead bodies. So it's not exactly a stretch for them to buy them dying if Night King is no longer alive to animate them.

Granted to a degree it is speculation on their part. They don't know for sure. But right now it's their best shot given the numbers just aren't on their side. In the least if they take out the Night King he can't make the undead army any bigger.

[XPac]

Some thoughts heading forward:

Am I the only one tired of Dany's entitlement complex? Historical precedent has shown that right of conquest is just as valid as right of inheritance when it comes to claims to the Iron Throne (Aegon the Conqueror proves this, as does Robert Baratheon). Stop whinging, Dany, and conquer some **** if you want it. The fact that she looked like she wanted to stab Jon through the heart just before the horn announced the army of the dead's arrival is telling of how corrupt she is.

Why is everyone so concerned about the Winterfell Crypts being dangerous because they house unburned dead bodies? There is no danger there; only the Stark family members are interred in the crypts and the bodies are nothing but dust by now, save for poor Rickon, perhaps, and a headless Ned.

I also don't care much for the Arya-murders-Cersei-while-wearing-Jaime's-face theory. If Arya does this, it will be a regression of her character arc. She had the opportunity at the start of Season 7 to go to King's Landing and kill Cersei. She was on her way to do just that until Hot Pie told her that her family was reunited at Winterfell. Arya made a choice to abandon her revenge monster quest and embrace her identity as Arya Stark...by returning to her home and defending her family. Arya being the one to kill Cersei feels like cheap fanfic. It's more poetic for Cersei to die at the hands of either Jaime or Tyrion.

Sansa x Theon warmed my heart...which brings me to my prediction that Sansa is going to pose the biggest challenge to whoever sits the Iron Throne at the end of the series. Through her bloodline or her relationships, Sansa has or will be able to unite the forces of the North, Riverlands, the Vale and the Iron Islands, provided Theon survives. If Arya and Gendry survive and become a thing, and Gendry is legitimized, Sansa indirectly has ties to the Stormlands. Entitled brat Dany demands the Seven Kingdoms stand united under her rule, but Sansa has quietly managed to unite a healthy portion of them under her leadership.

In all fairness to Dani her plan is pretty much to conquer ****. She did sucessful buid the most powerful army (of the living at least) in Westeros, and had every intention of going straight to Kings Landing to take the Iron Throne by force. It was only Tyrion that talked her out of it... which may or may not have been a mistake.

And I don't exactly agree she looked like she wanted to kill Jon. I think she was worried he might go after his throne and this would come between them... but I don't it was more hurt than anger we saw.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Jon seems to be handling the fact he banged his aunt pretty well.

It really doesn't matter to Targaryans. They were a family of outsiders who conquered Westeros and quite literally kept it in the family as a result. Aegon who conquered Westeros did it with his two sister wives. The Mad King and his Queen were siblings. Dany in the books grew up thinking she would one day wed her brother Viserys, thought she was supposed to wed her brother Rheagar's son Aegon (not Jon, Rheagar's child with Elia Martell) if they weren't ousted from Westeros, and actively wished she was older so that she could have been wed to Rheagar because then he might not run off with Lyanna.

Jamie and Cersie used the Targaryans to justify their incest. GRRM actually did have an early outline of the book where Arya and Jon would fall in love despite the reveal making them cousins.

The incest is the least problematic thing from a logistical standpoint for Jon and Dany. The existence of Jon is going to cause major problems. Dany's entire claim is based on restoring the Targaryen dynasty. Everything she fought for could be undermined by Jon existing as the true Targaryan heir. Dany would effectively become more of a usurper if Jon doesn't support her claim. Likewise Jon is going to run into issues with the Northmen for not being Ned Stark's true son. Now a half Targaryan born in the South is telling them what to do.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

In all fairness to Dani her plan is pretty much to conquer ****. She did sucessful buid the most powerful army (of the living at least) in Westeros, and had every intention of going straight to Kings Landing to take the Iron Throne by force. It was only Tyrion that talked her out of it... which may or may not have been a mistake.

And I don't exactly agree she looked like she wanted to kill Jon. I think she was worried he might go after his throne and this would come between them... but I don't it was more hurt than anger we saw.

Dany did buy into the stupidity that Viserys sold her of people in Westeros awaiting their true king and sharing secret toasts in their honor. She didn't really consider how the Mad King was actually very hated and that by the end most of the country was fighting against him (the Reach and Dorne not withstanding) until much later in her life. She also foolishly claimed in season 2 that people in Westeros would rise to fight for their true queen when she crossed the Narrow Sea. She really didn't expect to come to Westeros and face as much opposition as she did. That's pretty scary considering the only reason she even had the support of House Tyrell was because Cersie blew most of them up and gave Olenna nothing to live for, Dorne had an uprising, and the Ironborn were split and one faction joined Cersei making her an enemy to them and they basically had to run to Dany.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Dany did buy into the stupidity that Viserys sold her of people in Westeros awaiting their true king and sharing secret toasts in their honor. She didn't really consider how the Mad King was actually very hated and that by the end most of the country was fighting against him (the Reach and Dorne not withstanding) until much later in her life. She also foolishly claimed in season 2 that people in Westeros would rise to fight for their true queen when she crossed the Narrow Sea. She really didn't expect to come to Westeros and face as much opposition as she did. That's pretty scary considering the only reason she even had the support of House Tyrell was because Cersie blew most of them up and gave Olenna nothing to live for, Dorne had an uprising, and the Ironborn were split and one faction joined Cersei making her an enemy to them and they basically had to run to Dany.

To be fair she was very young, and naive when viserys was still alive. And honestly I don't think the smallnfolk really care any more. They just want peace.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I reject the idea that characters only need to be there who further the plot. Characters > Plot any day, as Game of Thrones has always been at its best when focused on character and not just big plot. Davos may not be a pivotal character within the central plot, but he's still a very interesting character. As is Jorah, Samwell, Tormund, etc.

This episode was a too light on Dany. The more Khalessi the better, yo. Emilia Clarke commands every scene she's in.

I liked seeing Jon reunite with his friends, and remember the fallen. I wish that lasted a tiny bit longer. I wish they'd give some scenes longer time to breathe. We're at the end, who cares about runtime! The scene with Jaime and Bran cut away way too fast to actually sell the emotion. Jaime is such an emotive dude, just hold on a few seconds longer and that scene would have been so powerful. It makes it feel too choppy.

There's only 4 episodes left and we have to deal with the Army of the Dead and Cersei. A lot of characters will probably be weeded out because there just won't be room to satisfy most of their inclusions. It's a balance of what is better. Either having characters hang around in the background in an already strained plot or giving them serviceable deaths where they can have one final impact.

I'd love for Davos to live but I really think he's so expendable here and now that he's relegated to Jon's biggest cheerleader and the good heartwarming man with a soft spot for children, he's an easy candidate for a gut wrenching death. Truthfully I could even see Brienne dying. She just got her big moment and she might go down heroically with the ship. Theon is almost a definite goner imo. He has nothing left to do besides sacrafice himself protecting Winterfell. I'm 50/50 on Beric because they are teasing that he's been getting ressurected for a reason but I could see that reason occuring here and he dies right after.

I think Jon and Dany as the main characters will get some plot armor here because they both have more to do and have unfinished business. Jamie and Tyrion both have reckonings with Cersie and there is the whole Bron plotline. So one or both probably live. Sandor Clegane still has to face the Mountain at some point so I think he makes it.

Even as far as the Starks, I could see either Arya or Bran biting it. Bran might fulfill his role in the next episode and die and Arya really doesn't have much of a major plotline besides being there anymore. I could easily see her doing some crucial badass move that helps the heroes and dying for it. Even Sansa I could see her doing something drastic to see her people, but I think she is a little more safe based off what she went through.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

To be fair she was very young, and naive when viserys was still alive. And honestly I don't think the smallnfolk really care any more. They just want peace.

The smallfolk don't care at all whose king. It has never mattered to them as long as they can live their lives without war and hunger. The highborns are the ones who care and are pulling the strings.

[AndrewCrossett]

Jon actually can't defuse the situation now by declining his right to the throne, or even keeping his parentage secret. No matter what happens, as long as he is alive Dany will know that she is a pretender.

The best compromise would be for her to be ruler of the Six Kingdoms (minus The North) and Jon/Aegon to rule as King in the North. But I don't see her going for that arrangement.

[XPac]

Dany did buy into the stupidity that Viserys sold her of people in Westeros awaiting their true king and sharing secret toasts in their honor. She didn't really consider how the Mad King was actually very hated and that by the end most of the country was fighting against him (the Reach and Dorne not withstanding) until much later in her life. She also foolishly claimed in season 2 that people in Westeros would rise to fight for their true queen when she crossed the Narrow Sea. She really didn't expect to come to Westeros and face as much opposition as she did. That's pretty scary considering the only reason she even had the support of House Tyrell was because Cersie blew most of them up and gave Olenna nothing to live for, Dorne had an uprising, and the Ironborn were split and one faction joined Cersei making her an enemy to them and they basically had to run to Dany.

She clearly underestimated how much the people of Westeros would fear her. That said, she was prepared from a military standpoint. And politically she also did a fairly good job of getting a lot of the other kingdoms to side with her. By the time she was ready to confront Cersi she arguably had more allies than the actual Queen did (though in part that was more Cersi's doing than Dani's).

Her biggest hole was likely in the PR side of things as far as winning over the people... but that's what Tyrion is for.

Overall, I'd say she did amazing well if you consider she essentially was starting from scatch.

[XPac]

Jon actually can't defuse the situation now by declining his right to the throne, or even keeping his parentage secret. No matter what happens, as long as he is alive Dany will know that she is a pretender.

The best compromise would be for her to be ruler of the Six Kingdoms (minus The North) and Jon/Aegon to rule as King in the North. But I don't see her going for that arrangement.

You can argue getting married and having an heir together defusing the situation REASONABLY well enough. But that's probably too much of a "happy ever after" ending for this show.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

You can argue getting married and having an heir together defusing the situation REASONABLY well enough. But that's probably too much of a "happy ever after" ending for this show.

only on this show, is an incest baby considered an "too good to be true" ending.

[XPac]

Some thoughts heading forward:

Am I the only one tired of Dany's entitlement complex? Historical precedent has shown that right of conquest is just as valid as right of inheritance when it comes to claims to the Iron Throne (Aegon the Conqueror proves this, as does Robert Baratheon). Stop whinging, Dany, and conquer some **** if you want it. The fact that she looked like she wanted to stab Jon through the heart just before the horn announced the army of the dead's arrival is telling of how corrupt she is.

Why is everyone so concerned about the Winterfell Crypts being dangerous because they house unburned dead bodies? There is no danger there; only the Stark family members are interred in the crypts and the bodies are nothing but dust by now, save for poor Rickon, perhaps, and a headless Ned.

I also don't care much for the Arya-murders-Cersei-while-wearing-Jaime's-face theory. If Arya does this, it will be a regression of her character arc. She had the opportunity at the start of Season 7 to go to King's Landing and kill Cersei. She was on her way to do just that until Hot Pie told her that her family was reunited at Winterfell. Arya made a choice to abandon her revenge monster quest and embrace her identity as Arya Stark...by returning to her home and defending her family. Arya being the one to kill Cersei feels like cheap fanfic. It's more poetic for Cersei to die at the hands of either Jaime or Tyrion.

Sansa x Theon warmed my heart...which brings me to my prediction that Sansa is going to pose the biggest challenge to whoever sits the Iron Throne at the end of the series. Through her bloodline or her relationships, Sansa has or will be able to unite the forces of the North, Riverlands, the Vale and the Iron Islands, provided Theon survives. If Arya and Gendry survive and become a thing, and Gendry is legitimized, Sansa indirectly has ties to the Stormlands. Entitled brat Dany demands the Seven Kingdoms stand united under her rule, but Sansa has quietly managed to unite a healthy portion of them under her leadership.

Fighting Rickon and a headless Ned should make for an interesting scene though. That little girl in the soup line will have her hands full.

[Starrius]

In all fairness to Dani her plan is pretty much to conquer ****. She did sucessful buid the most powerful army (of the living at least) in Westeros, and had every intention of going straight to Kings Landing to take the Iron Throne by force. It was only Tyrion that talked her out of it... which may or may not have been a mistake.

And I don't exactly agree she looked like she wanted to kill Jon. I think she was worried he might go after his throne and this would come between them... but I don't it was more hurt than anger we saw.

I didn't see any signs of Dani wanting to hurt Jon let alone kill him. I think there was some denial,surprise,concern, and "what are we doing to do"
After all, she's in love with him. She made love with him. Now she finds out he's her nephew.


It's amazing how people perceive things so differently.
Well..it's really not amazing. After all, there is a great diversity that we human beings have in regards to ideologies,religions,politics,and everything else in life.

I read some article headline about Dani showing signs of being The Mad Queen.
I was expecting to see Dani showing signs of it, but I haven't seen any of that.
It was nice that she had a heart to heart talk about Sansa, trying to find common ground with her.

I think she's a good person but she can be very ruthless with her enemies and others that oppose her.

[Starrius]

only on this show, is an incest baby considered an "too good to be true" ending.

not if the baby winds up living without one or both parents

[Midvillian1322]

It sort of makes sense though. It's not like you and your parents... the Night King is magically animating these dead bodies. So it's not exactly a stretch for them to buy them dying if Night King is no longer alive to animate them.

Granted to a degree it is speculation on their part. They don't know for sure. But right now it's their best shot given the numbers just aren't on their side. In the least if they take out the Night King he can't make the undead army any bigger.

Havent rewatched recent seasons yet. This idea came from them killing a General and then all the Wights he made died instantly right? I mean it's fair speculation to say if the Nightking is at the top of the pyramid everyone would die with him. But yea it is speculation but it's a fair assumption from what they know